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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #1 
My mom passed away in early September. She was thrifty, as so many were in her generation, and she left each of us children an inheritance. Not a huge amount, but enough that I can afford to buy a LA if I so choose. I would like to have one, as it's much easier for me than lifting and shifting a heavy quilt through my Bernina, but I need some input from my friends as to what to look for and what to avoid! I'd prefer to buy a good used machine, but will consider new if it will have resale value down the road. Not sure how many years I have left in my hands!

I've tried the Babylock Crown Jewel and the Bernina...(don't know if it has a name. Their first one, I think.) Of the two, I preferred the Bernina because it seemed to move more easily and is similar to the machine I own as to threading and bobbin winding. It's really expensive and there are probably not a lot of used ones available.

There is a Brother dealer nearby, and an Innova dealer about an hour away. I also know a few people who "may" be willing to let me try their Gammills and Handiquilters.

I guess what I really want to know is which ones you have used that you didn't like. If I hear enough "nays" on any particular one I just won't bother to try it. Also, if you Pacific Northwesterners have a dealer you really like, please let me know and I will try to get to that store.

This probably won't happen until the spring, because I want to check out a number of machines. Thanks for your input and help!

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Margaret 
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redmadder

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Reply with quote  #2 
I just joined a facebook forum named 'Beginning Longarm Quilters'.  Someone asked what machine she should look for and everyone is raving about an APQS Lucy.  They say the throat is big and the customer service is fantastic.  I have no opinion but thought you might like some more options.
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Reply with quote  #3 
Had to smile - your situation is the same as mine.  I would have never been able to get the LA except for the inheritance.   I probably didn't do as much research as I should have before getting the HQ,  but overall I'm happy with it.   I should get DH to respond to you,  he's looked over and ran way more different LA machines than I have,  and he's always asking questions as to the mechanical and self serviceability.   When we travel and stop at quilt shops,  he makes a point of checking out any LA machines they have .  Most of the time it's a machine they use for quilting and they are not a dealer,  so they are more willing to talk about the good and bad from the user point and not as a reseller.

The number one reason I bought my machine was the recommendations of an acquaintance that has a small LA business.   She had replaced her machine with an Avante,  and really liked it - and she highly recommended the dealer she bought it from.    The dealer is a small family owned place that really knows their machines,  and does a lot to keep customers happy.  Local support was important to me at the time,  since I really did not know what I was doing.  If I were to buy now,  that would be less of a concern for me.

There are so many types out there,  and each one will have it's devoted following.  So the important thing is for you to find one that you love,  and not be too worried about what other people love.   But it sounds like you have the right idea - find out what people don't like and why -

What I don't like about my Fusion are all things that were changed with the model that came out next,  and luckily most of them I was able to retrofit or work around - lighting,  easy attachable feet,  digital tension readout,   and a few smaller "nice to have" items.

What I didn't like about my first machine - low height of arm so I could not use a dead bar at the back.   That was a huge issue as the back bar had to be adjusted with each roll,  and that is a royal pain.   Take a good hard look at the table too - many of the more expensive machines require a specific table.




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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #4 
Margaret when I went to the Expo I tried out as many of the machines as I could. I didn't care for the Juki, Janome, Bernina or the Grace machine that's the same thing as the Block Rockit. I really loved the Gammill Vision, I liked almost everything about it. It's expensive though, so many things are extra add ons and don't come standard with it. What turned me off though was the rep. He was a jerk and wouldn't answer specific questions with a straight answer. My second favorite at the Expo was the Handi Quilter machines. I ended up buying my Avante used from a local dealer. She's a great dealer as well as a teacher, someday when my life is my own again I want to take a class from her.
I agree with Cathy that you should try as many as you can and find the perfect one for you. There were some that weren't at the Expo so I didn't get a chance to try them out but I'm happy with what I did buy, no regrets at all.

Cari

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Reply with quote  #5 
Have you thought/checked out the Bailey?  http://www.baileyssewingcenter.com/bhqjusppa.html  I have 3 friends that have one, and they love it and the price plus the great customer service.  A Bailey is what I'll be getting when I get a bigger sewing room, which hopefully will be soon.
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macybaby

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Reply with quote  #6 
If you have the money - skip the Bailey.   It's not a true long arm,  it's a domestic machine that has been lengthened.  I think it's a great machine for the money,  but if money is not an issue,  it would be near last on my list to get.

I owned one for a few years,  as I didn't want to spend $20,000 to start with,  and $4,000 was more in my comfort zone because I didn't know if I'd like quilting on an LA.  Once I knew I loved it,  and also knew I had the funds,  I went with a true long arm.  They are a very VERY different machine.

Cons on the Bailey
1. class 15 bobbin, holds about half what a true LA holds
2. slow - top speed around 900,  which you can easily overrun (I did it all the time) most LA are 2,000+
3. low arm,   means you can't use a deadbar,  and I had to hand wind some large quilts so they'd even fit once rolled up under the arm of the machine.  the height can be almost as important as the length.  

All of these items can be worked around,  and I did for a few years.    But with the final settlement of my Mom's estate,  I was able to upgrade to a machine that took away all the dislikes I had.   Without the inheritance,  I would have stayed with the Bailey and been happy,  knowing it was what was in my budget. 

If you don't opt for the robotics,  you can get an HQ for around $8,000.   If you can afford it,  I'd suggest getting the robotics,  as they open up a lot of options,  and it's way funner than  I expected.  I went without them for a few years and figured I'd never want them.  But I'm sure having fun having that option along with FMQ when I prefer that.  

 

BTW - if you go to the HQ site they have a forum where people post used machines for sale.   If you lean towards an HQ.   I think there are forums for most of the LA's where people post used machines.   I've been really tempted to upgrade to the Infinity,  but I have to keep telling myself that I don't need the latest greatest just because it's there!  LOL!

Buying sewing machines is simply an addiction for me - and I'm trying hard to not buy any more vintage,  and I've found myself looking at new machines now.   LOL!!

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Reply with quote  #7 
I quilt professionally more than 200 quilts a year. I started with a Gammill because 17 years ago, the two players were APQS and Gammill. My Gammill predated stitch regulating and was a monster to push around.

I went from the Gammill to a HandiQuilter - a lot lighter with stitch regulator, but I was never happy with the stitch regulator - always a dribble and hesitation at the very beginning, and I'm way too obsessive about perfect stitch quality.

From HandiQuilter, I went to Innovis - great speed and a reasonable stitch regulator, I found the carriage very unstable, and had difficulty getting the quality of stitch I expected.

From Innovis I moved to the Prodigy, and have never looked back. For my dollar, one of the most elegant frames and one of the best machines with great speed and absolutely the best stitch regulator. I've used the machine continuously for the past 8 years. Changing needles and oil is all it ever has needed, thought I did just recently send her in for a major overhaul (remember, she quilts a lot.)

I now also own a Bernina Q24, and find it an exceptional machine. With digitally controlled thread tension, the ability to swap out feet (I can even couch with it), a class M bobbin, built-in bobbin winder that actually works, great lighting and great frame, and the addition of the new Q-Matic, it's the first machine since the prodigy that impressed me enough that I needed to have one. The stitch regulator is exceptional, the stitch quality is even better than my Prodigy, AND the machine takes standard household sewing machine needles. It's very light to the touch, and I've been able to use all kinds of threads. I even recently quilted a client's quilt with monofilament with nary a break.

There's my two cents.
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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #8 
The Prodigy looks pretty impressive! I also love the Bernina, but it's quite expensive and I don't know that there are any used ones available as yet. I'd prefer to buy used -I'm not a pro, so I won't make any of the money back! Although I know Berninas keep their value pretty well.

I am going to have to make a few trips so I can try all these lovely machines. We have Bernina and Babylock here in town, but our Handiquilter shop closed its doors in October. There's a shop within about 35 miles, I think. And I believe I can try the Innovis at a shop about 50 miles in the opposite direction from the HQ place. After that, I'd have to go to the Seattle area (not so bad, I can go to Cari's house once it's built!), or to Portland. I shouldn't have to babysit this coming week, so maybe I can get to one of the close shops.

Actually, I think the Gammill dealer is not terribly far away either - maybe 100 miles. I think their main location is in Wenatchee. Pretty town! Has a couple of good quilt shops.

Thanks all, and I'd be glad for more opinions as well!

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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #9 
I own a HQ Avante and am not overly impressed with it.  The stitch tension is a tricky little thing and I've had mine now for 2 years and it's just now starting to work half way good.  If I had it to do it over again, I would have driven to Wisconsin or Minnesota to buy a used machine.  You go for 3 or 4 days and they teach you how to use the machines and the pantographs and they have you take the machine apart so when you get home, you can put it back together.  I think the most important part of buying a machine is the support you will get from the dealer.  I had a great salesman but a terrible support person.  I have called HQ and gotten different suggestions for operating my machine.  Hands on help would have been so much better and I deeply regret not paying just a little more for so much better help.  I paid $10,000 for my Avante on sale and my manual is about 20 pages all in black and white with mistakes in it.  I have to watch videos for help and they are not the best either.  I wouldn't buy another HQ for anything.
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Reply with quote  #10 
Please consider a used machine..I bought a Gammill 9 years ago used..no bells or whistles and have been super happy with it..almost do it yourself maintence..parts online..mine has a 14 ft frame..just what was the deal...JMO-Diana in MI
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Christy

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macybaby
If you have the money - skip the Bailey.   It's not a true long arm,  it's a domestic machine that has been lengthened.  I think it's a great machine for the money,  but if money is not an issue,  it would be near last on my list to get.

Cons on the Bailey
1. class 15 bobbin, holds about half what a true LA holds
2. slow - top speed around 900,  which you can easily overrun (I did it all the time) most LA are 2,000+
3. low arm,   means you can't use a deadbar,  and I had to hand wind some large quilts so they'd even fit once rolled up under the arm of the machine.  the height can be almost as important as the length.  



You're right the Bailey is a good machine for the price.  I did not have the money for a nicer machine and wasn't sure if I would like using a long arm either.  I've done a few quilts now and am gaining in my skills but I can already feel how wonderful it would be to upgrade to something else down the road...if money falls into my hands lol!  

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #12 
The money has not yet fallen into my hands! I have been looking at used machines, but haven't seen any yet that I actually want to go look at. I'd kind of like to get one that's a few years old and has all the bugs worked out, but has some of the later technology. Well, at least a stitch regulator and an adjustable height.  I usually do straight line or FMQ, and my FMQ is improving (amazing how much better it is when I mark the design first)!



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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #13 
Just another thought. Can you rent time on one some place and decide if your back can take it. You said you didn't have room for more machines. Why not hire out the quilting - you might be money, time, pain and space ahead in the long run.
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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #14 
So, Miriam, you may be right. I've rented the Babylock Crown Jewel and the Bernina LA several times. It's no contest; the Bernina wins. I believe they are about $21,000 new, and there probably aren't many used ones available yet, and I don't want to spend $21,000, so that's out. I found the Babylock rather heavy and awkward, but it probably wasn't set up right for me. Those are the only ones I've tried.

You know, it's got to be cheaper to hire out the quilting than to buy a longarm. I just like to do everything myself, it it's not so easy these days. I guess I could hire out the king size quilt I'm making right now, and see how I like that. It's sort of an heirloom quilt though - not super fancy but something I made for the kids to have after I'm gone. I thought I might quilt it in sections on my Bernina.

Darn, I wish I had a good quilting friend here in Richland! So hard to make decisions on my own!!

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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #15 
I'm reading this with a lot of interest - I'm (slowly) saving up to get a LA myself, but I'm at least 3 years away because I have to move to a larger house first! 

I think it's VERY interesting that the Bernina uses standard needles - I didn't know that.  That sounds like it'd solve a lot of issues with bearding and make sewing with batiks easier too.  (And I love batiks and use them a lot.)

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Reply with quote  #16 
I don't have much experience with machines other than my Gammill Optimum Plus.  I bought it new in 2004 and it's quilted somewhere around 2000 quilts since then.  Still works fine, actually better than it did when new as I occasionally find ways to make minor improvements.  The only real complaint I've had with it were that the wheels on the carriage would create problems.  After a while, they would develop dips or flat spots, and those minor imperfections cause uneven travel and can be very irritating.  Gammill changed the composition of the wheels a few years later, but the new ones weren't much better.  I ran across Edge Rider wheels on the internet one day and ordered a set of those, and that ended the problem for me.  I've been using them for about three years now and they are still perfect.

I have a 14' table on my machine.
[20160702_094246-XL] 

About 95% of what I do is pantograph or freehand meandering, but once in a while I'll get one that someone wants custom work on.  This one is one my wife made that has a lot of hand applique.
[20161002_121856-XL] 


She was off at a retreat while I was working on it, so I had to send her pictures of it in progress.  Here's a couple of it still on the machine.
[20160927_165847-XL] 

[20160927_165839-XL] 

I know a few other LA quitlers who have APQS Millenium machines and one that uses an Innova.  They seem happy with them, but I have never used them personally.

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #17 
Dave, you and your wife make an awesome quilt together! Wow! I know someone with a Gammill who just loves it. They are pretty expensive, though, for someone like me who isn't planning to quilt professionally.

There is an ad on CL right now for an 18" Tin Lizzie, for $4000. I want to look at it, but I'm still dragging from this respiratory infection. I may have to get some stronger drugs.

Has anyone use the TL, and what do you think?

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Margaret 
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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #18 
Margaret I know someone with an old TL who loves it. I've read though in the last 10 years or so, that TL went way down in quality and service was all but non existent. Supposedly in the last couple years they've gotten better and new ones are good again but if you check this one out I'd do it very thoroughly. If it's old enough to be a good one, see what upgrades it has.

Cari

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks, Cari! I appreciate the info!
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Margaret 
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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #20 
I did it! I bought a Handi-Quilter Avante! 18" throat, 8" high, 10' frame.....I've been walking on air the last couple of hours. I've only looked at 4 brands - Babylock, Bernina, Gammill, and Handi-Quilter. They all work beautifully, but I decided on the HQ because of the price and their reputation for helpfulness after the sale. Now I have to do a real serious cleanup of my sewing room so I can fit her in.

I'm so excited! 😊

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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #21 
Ooh, have fun!
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macybaby

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Reply with quote  #22 
you are going to have fun! 

And probably some struggles,  but don't get discouraged because it can all be worked out.  HQ is very good at helping to get things worked out too.

I still get easily discouraged with mine,  and then I don't want to even attempt something because I'm worried I'll have problems.   Silly me LOL!!


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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #23 
Cathy, I'm going to take every class I can find! Also, I'm going to see Cari in Olympia sometime and she is going to give me some lessons (right, Cari??). I'm not worrying about being perfect, I just want to play!
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Reply with quote  #24 
Wait, what? That'd be like the blind leading the blind lol [biggrin] 


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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #25 
At least you've had one for a while!
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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #26 
Congratulations!  Have fun with it.
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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #27 
So much fun putting it together...my back! Still have to do about half of it. I am calling in sick until DH has it finished!
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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #28 
The lady I bought mine from, who is a dealer and her husband put my frame together when they brought my machine. When we move it to my house I'll be putting it back together. With help of course.

Cari

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #29 
My DH is very impressed by how well machined all the parts are. Everything fits together nearly perfectly, it's very solid, and the carriage and head roll very smoothly on their tracks. We got it almost finished today - still need to put on the leaders, laser, and maybe a few other odds and ends. A technician will be out on Tuesday to do the fine tuning. I'm so exhausted! It took us about 8 hours to put it all together, and some parts are super heavy. I think that without DH it would have taken way longer, so props to him! He understands how things go together and how to read the drawings.

Tomorrow I hope to load something on it and try it out. After watching the videos again, of course. Hope I don't break it!

It takes up almost half of my sewing room. I have some major work to do to squeeze everything back in!

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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #30 
Didn't I tell you how solid they are? After all the years I spent looking at older wooden frames(and came *this* close to buying a couple because the price was right), the one thing I seem to always hear was griping about the rails bowing. After actually seeing how the HQ frames are made I didn't hesitate. I love how easy they are to put together.

Cari

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #31 
The tech came out today and fine tuned our leveling job, showed me a few good things, and promised to answer any questions I have or get answers to them. Q #1, why doesn't the bobbin winder work? Probably a bad switch, he called HQ and they are shipping a replacement bobbin winder out tomorrow. A pleasure to deal with the company! We set up some ugly fabric for practice and I had fun with that. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow-no laughing at my quilting, please! Or at least turn your back. Turns out this is taking up just about half of my sewing room, so I have to do some major work to get the important stuff in there.

What is the absolute fastest scrap quilt that I can turn out? I may take a few days next week to do something like that. Guess I could try the Jelly roll race 🏁. That should be fast.

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Margaret 
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Miriam

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Reply with quote  #32 
Oversize blocks?
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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #33 
Miriam, I've seen a central star used as basically the only block in a quilt. That could be fairly easy!
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Margaret 
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Reply with quote  #34 
Yeah for you, Margaret.  Hope you love it.

100_4712.JPG 

My brother made this for me so I could turn the knobs easily, less hurt for my hands.


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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #35 
Thanks, redmadder! I already love her and my hands and right shoulder ache to prove it! That's a cool device your brother built for you. Anything that makes handwork easier is great! My DH built something like that for unscrewing the hot tub filters. It works really well,
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Margaret 
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Christy

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly
Didn't I tell you how solid they are? After all the years I spent looking at older wooden frames(and came *this* close to buying a couple because the price was right), the one thing I seem to always hear was griping about the rails bowing. After actually seeing how the HQ frames are made I didn't hesitate. I love how easy they are to put together.

Cari


I am getting sick frame envy!  Mine is an 8 foot frame and wooden.  Yes, I am already bummed about the vibration and the rods bowing.  I can work with it and the price was right, but I can feel a frame upgrade sometime in the future.  I'd love a 10' or even a 12' frame and metal so it's solid.  

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redmadder

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Reply with quote  #37 
I have a Gracie frame bought used.  The rails bow and I'm cogitating on some way to keep them more rigid without adding a lot of weight.  
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Christy

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmadder
I have a Gracie frame bought used.  The rails bow and I'm cogitating on some way to keep them more rigid without adding a lot of weight.  


If you come up with something, let me know!  I already re-made a couple end pieces to give me a tad more  quilting space.

I casually mentioned to hubby last night I had frame envy.  He thought we could maybe build one?  He can weld but is not a designer.  I'm not so sure I could direct him on that one!

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Margaret

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Reply with quote  #39 
There must be a source for aluminum poles somewhere! I guess PVC would bow too, wouldn't it. Maybe just keep looking for a used one. I see frames for sale occasionally on the Longarm University site.
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Reply with quote  #40 
I put a brace between mine,  but that is because I kept it set up king size,  so I usually had several feet of empty rails on one end.   The  rails for the HQ are significantly stouter,  and they don't bow a bit. 


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Jeanette Frantz

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Reply with quote  #41 
Margaret, congratulations on your LA -- I just read your post about it (I am sooooo behind!)  I'm really happy for you.

Dave, you  and your wife make some fantastic quilts.  That applique quilt is absolutely stunning!

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davevv

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Reply with quote  #42 
Thanks.  My wife entered it in two shows this month.  Didn't get anything in the big Dallas show, but it did get an honorable mention at the show in Tyler, TX.
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Christy

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davevv
Thanks.  My wife entered it in two shows this month.  Didn't get anything in the big Dallas show, but it did get an honorable mention at the show in Tyler, TX.


Wow!  Those shows must be tough!  In my local show (small town) that would surely win a ribbon!

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