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ALF

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Reply with quote  #1 
Howdy!

What I have:  A few Singer 31-15 sized heads.

What I want: An industrial-sized Singer treadle base for them.

What I found:  An industrial-sized Singer treadle base (still has an old 31-15 attached).  

The issue:  It's the iron base for a foot-powered treadle, but the Pitman arm attaches to a motor bolted underneath the wooden top.  The flywheel and axle are missing.  

The question:  Will a flywheel/axle/Pitman arm from a more common, non-commercial Singer treadle fit the commercial iron base?  Have any of you tried swapping Singer flywheels before?

Thanks in advance for the wise words!


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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #2 
The Industrial/Tailor versions have much bigger bandwheels.  (like 15-16 inches versus 12-14 inches)  you will REALLY want the bigger bandwheel once you start using it.

I have this one that was originally for a 31-15 that I re-tasked for my Improved Manufacturing (IM) (biggest fiddlebase around) that shows how big that wheel is.
20151101_143043.jpg 


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Madmurdock75

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Reply with quote  #3 
One thing you could do is look for one of the White "sit-straight" treadle bases. They were for a domestic machine, but wide enough an industrial will fit. You could just bolt the whole industrial tabletop on to it.

The wheel is small, just like Steve mentioned, and I do feel like the base is somewhat lightweight for an industrial, but it does work.

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pgf

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH-VSS
The Industrial/Tailor versions have much bigger bandwheels.  (like 15-16 inches versus 12-14 inches)  you will REALLY want the bigger bandwheel once you start using it.



I would have thought one would want a smaller wheel, for lower "gearing", when using an industrial.  Why is the larger wheel preferable?

paul

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Son of A Singer Man

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Reply with quote  #5 
Good Day!   
     
     Years ago, 'Captain Dick' of 'Treadle On' did exactly what you are asking about. He installed a standard SINGER  domestic / household treadle stand's flywheel and axle on a SINGER industrial treadle stand. From memory, it worked out very well for him. As I recall it, he said that he had to reverse the cone bearings for the axle in order for it to work.

     The reason that I remember that is that I have a 1924 SINGER 31-20 that was sold as a new machine in 1928... I have the original sales receipt. The SINGER dealer in San Francisco assembled the 31-20 's treadle stand with an 'underslung' (attached to the bottom side of the sewing table) SINGER Industrial Electric Motor. The machine was delivered without the 16-inch 'band wheel' and pitman for treadle operation. I wanted to convert the 31-20 to treadle operation, and hopefully make the machine an easily 'convertible' machine that would operate from both electric motor or treadle.

       I spent a few years in search of the missing 16-inch band wheel & pitman combination with no success. Then, a internet friend 'Ray' in New York State acquired a factory-built 'convertible' SINGER 31-15... a combination that could be operated in both manners, and easily-switched from one mode of operation to the other. Yes, SINGER did market them that way. He had posted (on the Treadle On Digest) that the combination of both the electric motor and the treadle's band wheel and pitman made the assembly a bit too heavy to move about in his home. He was going to remove the band wheel and pitman to 'lighten the load'. When I read that  I sent him a quick e-mail expressing my 'desire to acquire' those parts. The deal was struck, and a few days later, the parts arrived at my home here in CA.

      When the parts arrived, I quickly set to installing them on the 31-20's treadle stand. The first thing that I discovered was that the huge electric motor that was mounted to the underside of the table interfered with the installation of the band wheel and axle for the treadle operation. I drilled two new mounting holes to move the motor further back, and that allowed me to install the band wheel. problem solved? Uhh...not so much. Moving that 30#+ electric motor further back made the treadle stand pretty unstable,  and the combination was 'pretty light' on the table's front feet... in other words, the table could easily flip over backwards with the slightest upward pressure underneath the front of the table! 

     So, I removed the electric motor and proceeded to install the pitman....Uh-Oh!  The lower part of the pitman was designed to connect to a 'ball socket' at the right rear corner of the treadle plate. My treadle plate had an axle-type of connection (a solid round post). Thinking it over, I came up with a solution...I created a 'hybrid' pitman using a piece of oak wood for the lower connection, and the upper half of the pitman that came with the band wheel.  I threaded the steel shaft of the upper part of the pitman and created a pitman that was easily adjusted for overall length. Here is the link to the treadleon.net page that shows the pitman that I created:   http://treadleon.net/sewingmachineshop/hybridpitman/hybridpitman.html

     One year or so later, I fabricated a steel bracket that allows me to mount a much smaller 1.5 Amp VIKING sewing machine motor to the rear of the 31-20's 'pillar', just like a standard 'outboard' mount of a domestic / household sewing machine motor does. I had that motor as an 'extra' from a VIKING 33-10 'parts' sewing machine head that I had acquired. So, now my SINGER 31-20 is truly a 'combination/convertible' sewing machine.





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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgf
  I would have thought one would want a smaller wheel, for lower "gearing", when using an industrial.  Why is the larger wheel preferable?
paul


Smaller wheel would give more punch, but most of these machines have plenty of that as is, the larger wheel increases the speed you can sew and as in all commercial ventures, time is money.

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ALF

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks for the good words!

I was able to find another industrial treadle with the wheel intact.  But if I can get the first treadle for a bargain price, I may buy it for a future project.  I'll have one "speed" treadle and another "torque/punch" treadle.


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Stacy

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Reply with quote  #8 
 I've read of folks who've managed to use a typical Singer domestic bandwheel with the
31-15's longer industrial pitman, or have extended the domestic pitman.
  Apparently, the 2 speed 29-4 patcher bandwheel and pitman would fit in its base too.

An "industrial" treadle means it's designed to  be used with an "industrial" machine, which usually specializes in a function. The 16" flywheel is nice for easy speed, and the 31-15 is thought of as a tailor's machine, not especially for heavy leather goods. The 29-4 is suited for leather patching. 

 Look at this neat ( 2 speed?) heavier duty industrial treadle, ... I think for 45K  : Singer industrial 45K treadle base.jpg
 (ebay : "Rare 1912 cast iron Industrial Art Nouveau Singer Sewing Machine Treadle stand"

 Stacy

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALF
Howdy!

The question:  Will a flywheel/axle/Pitman arm from a more common, non-commercial Singer treadle fit the commercial iron base?  Have any of you tried swapping Singer flywheels before?



I have a Singer Industrial Treadle stand that has a household flywheel and pitman rod on it.  

It powers my Singer 78-3 (needle-feed) machine that I use to baste insulated clothing layers for zipper replacements (it sews up to 3 SPI for easy removal by setting the upper tension too tight to keep the stitch knot from forming within the fabric sandwich), and my wife uses the machine for straight-line quilting (with short stitches, of course).  The machine is set to use Tex30 (standard) thread.

The 12” flywheel that I used is from a standard Singer household treadle.  The pitman rod is from the same treadle, and had to be lengthened for the Industrial stand.  I did that by cutting the metal rod in half, and splicing in another piece of rod the same size using surplus linkage adjustment clamps.  The cone bearings, lock nuts, and axle came from the same household treadle with no modifications.

The smaller wheel works just fine on this machine for the uses that we have for it.  The difference in speed is not really even noticeable, and the unit treadles easily.

CD in Oklahoma

20181120_141339.jpg 
Machine547C_10.jpg 

Machine547C_11.jpg 


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leecopp

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgf


I would have thought one would want a smaller wheel, for lower "gearing", when using an industrial.  Why is the larger wheel preferable?

paul


Hey Paul, Big bandwheel = fast , small bandwheel = more power and easier treadling. Just like a mountain bike  Big Ring - Small Ring.  I don't need production shop fast, I need knee kind treadling and increased control.

(Running Seiko triple feed on a treadle with a domestic wheel, 31-15 and 78-1)
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leecopp

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy
 

 Look at this neat ( 2 speed?) heavier duty industrial treadle, ... I think for 45K  : Singer industrial 45K treadle base.jpg
 (ebay : "Rare 1912 cast iron Industrial Art Nouveau Singer Sewing Machine Treadle stand"

 Stacy


Hey Stacy, I bet that rig takes some muscle to get going but want to keep going! Very Interesting.

Lee


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