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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #101 
Nice find. Hemmers, tin, plates, same tucker. I’ll have to study that ruffler. So interesting!

Hemmers look like the ones in the possible 12 tin.  But the tucker is a different version.  In two of my mystery tins above, one tin shows these hemmers and a tucker like Style No 7, the other tin shows different hemmers and a tucker like this one - also similar to the Johnston tucker.  And in my boxes the hemmer position in the tin is flipped.
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OurWorkbench

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Reply with quote  #102 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericka
Re: the Style 12 attachments and tin, I found a very odd manual when searching the Smithsonian.  It was from The Spring Motor Company from Chicago and is titled "Instruction Book No Treadle Sewing Machine".  There is no date whatsoever on the manual, ...


It looks like that record for The Spring Motor Company between 1895 and 1929.

Janey

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summerleas

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Reply with quote  #103 
I am curious. Two attachment sets refer to a "box with racks". What is a box with racks?
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerleas
I am curious. Two attachment sets refer to a "box with racks". What is a box with racks?


Richard, the only attachment set manual that I'm seeing in this thread that refers to a "box with racks" is the Style 12 which has the list of attachments and parts on the last page.  It lists the following for parts for the Style 12 attachments:
509  Attachments, set complete, in metal box
510  Box with Racks

It goes on to list the various part #s for the included attachments. 

I haven't seen another attachment set that referred to a "box with racks" in this thread, so could you point it out to me?  It might help us to figure out what the Style 12 tin (or metal box with racks) looks like.

I've also been slowly going through some of the parts charts that I downloaded from Singer's website.  I need to go through the ones for the 27 machine and see if there are any current or obsolete part #s that match up with any of those attachment part #s.  If so, maybe we would get lucky and also get a picture that matches up. 

Ericka
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #105 
Okay, I just took a look through the Singer parts chart for the Model 24 machine, which had both a metal attachments box and a wooden puzzle box.  The parts chart shows the puzzle box as obsolete, but lists it as a "Box with Racks".

The parts chart also shows the Attachment Set in Metal Box as current and lists the entire set as "Attachment Set, complete in metal box".  No reference to "Racks".

Not sure if this helps or just muddies the waters.  Maybe I'll dig into the Model 27 charts a little more tomorrow.
Ericka
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summerleas

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Reply with quote  #106 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericka


Richard, the only attachment set manual that I'm seeing in this thread that refers to a "box with racks" is the Style 12 which has the list of attachments and parts on the last page.  It lists the following for parts for the Style 12 attachments:
509  Attachments, set complete, in metal box
510  Box with Racks

Ericka


The other one is the 1901 Style 11 manual on page 4:

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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #107 
I wonder if the style 24 tin or box was listed with 2, 3 or 5 digit numbering. I see the wood puzzle box is "500 empty with racks" from 1901 info richard has and 509/510 is style 12 tin.  I was thinking it might be sequential for boxes and numbers but noticed the old Ruffler shirring plate in 1901 parts list shows that as part 508( old) 25608 ( new ) This is some proof that the tin is an upgrade by not having a 3 digit number for the wood puzzle box full. It also gives us a more pinpoint timeline to look in the patents with shirring plate 25608 ( 508old) compared to the numbers in the style 12 tin. I am trying for find the 2 digit lists to compare parts.

  John Stuart
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #108 
John, I cut out the attachment parts info pages from the Model 24 parts chart for you:
24 PB Attachmt Set Info.jpg  24 Tin Attachmt Set Info.jpg
And here's the layout and parts info from the Model 24-50 manual that I have that shows the tin.
Singer 24 Att Tin Layout copy.jpg
Give me a bit longer and I'll see what the Model 27 parts charts show.
Ericka

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #109 
The only thing I found in the Model 27 parts charts was the attachments info for the Style 11 puzzle box.  Here it is:
Model 27 PB 11 Att Info copy.jpg
Just FYI, the original parts chart had the attachments info split over 2 pages, so I edited it to keep it on one page. 

I also found the Style 14 tin attachments info in the Model 128 parts chart.  Here's what it it says:
28 Style 14 Set Info.jpg
I was looking for the old puzzle box number of 500, but didn't see it anywhere, even in the obsolete part numbers.  I'm thinking the parts chart that I have is too new to have the old part # of 500 in it or they didn't care that much about obsolete attachment parts.

I think I need to print off some of this info to see if we can answer Richard's original question about "racks".

Ericka

Edited to change the parts chart from 28 to 128.  Sorry for the original typo.

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #110 
I have copies of Instruction Manual for Style No 10.

No 10 for 27 Machines is a reissue published in April 1895. The picture shows number 500 which I believe is a box number.

No 10 for I.F. or V.S. No 2 is a reissue published in February 1895. It shows the same box 500 and also a box 495.

Peggy

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #111 
I found this list of parts for 15 machines. It’s for a wooden box 26316. I don’t have a date on it. But it refers to many individual racks. And rack screws. Could these racks be the attachment holders for each piece?

Peggy

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #112 
Peggy, I think that's the same parts chart that I have for the Model 15 machine that shows the Style 11 puzzle box, but the one that I downloaded is missing a lot of pages, like the page right after the one you show with the attachments parts.  There should be a second page, but it was never scanned.  Maybe you have an original that you could share???

Anyway, I went through the parts chart for the Model 27 machine that had the part #s and showed "Racks".  And, yes, the racks were all of the hold-downs for each individual part.  Here's what I came up with when I looked up all of the part #s for those "racks".

26180 - Rack for Nos. 287b (cloth guide thumb screw), 25525 (bias gauge), 25527b (cloth guide) and 25537 to 25539 (screwdrivers and stiletto)

26181 - Rack for Nos. 25526 (binder with binder adjusting screw) and 25528 to 25532 (hemmers)

26185 - Rack for No. 25547 (Underbraider with 581b (Underbraider foot screw for 25547) and 26612 (Underbraider guide stud for 25547))

26189 - Rack pin for 26190 (Rack for No. 8228 (Shuttle Bobbin))

26190 - Rack for No. 8228 (Shuttle Bobbin)

26193 - Box Sprint Catch Hook

26194 - Box Spring Catch

26302 - Box Spring Catch and Hook Rivet

26304 - Rack for No. 26513 (Tucker, complete, etc)

26306 - Rack for Nos. 25533 (Hemmer Foot with 291b (Hemmer Foot Thumb Screw), 25534 (Quilter, complete), 25542 (Underbraider Foot) and 26513 (Tucker, complete)

26314 - Rack for No. 26158 (Ruffler, complete)

If anybody wants to take a look at the entire parts chart, here's a link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060314060240/http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/27-1_2_3_4.pdf

It looks to me like Singer referred to "racks" as any metal part that held down an attachment. 
Ericka
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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #113 
Racks are shown on Plate 944.

Now the search for that Plate! Peggy

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #114 
Ericka, Great information on those racks.

It was a few years ago that I printed out the parts list for the 15. I didn’t get the whole book at the time. I have one more page - the index. I’m happy to try for a proper scan of anything.

I also have an Attachments Manual for 15. I had this paper copy mailed to me. It’s not dated.

Peggy

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp7wvr
Racks are shown on Plate 944.

Now the search for that Plate! Peggy

Peggy, if you look at the info that I provided above your post, you'll find all the part #s for those racks and what they hold down.  I don't think there's really much need to find the plate # for the Model 15 puzzle box.

I think we've already put a pic of that in this thread somewhere already.
Ericka

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #116 
Ericka, Thanks. Our threads crossed. I was posting that as your great details were coming in! I found that plate. It was a picture of the puzzle box with numbers on everything- including all those rack numbers you listed.

Richard - good quest!

Peggy
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #117 
I put together a parts list for the rack part #s for the Model 24 puzzle box, for Richard's info.  Once again, it looks like any metal piece that holds down an attachment is called a "rack".  Here's the detail on the racks:

Box with Racks, Nos. 26193, 26194, 26318, 26324, two 26302, three 26304, five 26185, and ten wood screws

26193 - Box Spring Catch Hook

26194 - Box Spring Catch

26318 - Rack for Nos. 287b (Cloth Guide Thumb Screw), 25525 (Bias Gauge), 25537 (Screwdriver), 25539 (Stiletto) and 25618b (Cloth Guide)

26324 - Rack for No. 1534 (Hemmer Thumb Nut)

26302 - Box Spring Catch Hook Rivet

26304 - Rack for Nos. 26516 (Tucker, complete) and 28863 (Gatherer)

26185 - Rack for Nos. 25503 to 25505 (2 Hemmers + Quilter), 25617 (Hemmer) and 26774 (Ruffler, complete)

And, if you want to look at that part chart directly, here's a link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060314115336/http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/24-1_2_20_24_30_50_51.pdf

And, just FYI, I created a whole separate topic that contains a link to ALL the Singer parts charts that used to be available on the Singer website and are now gone.  So anyone can download what they need, if it's there and a complete scan.  Most of the manuals seem okay, although the quality isn't great.  But, unfortunately, that scan for the Class 15 machine is missing quite a few pages.  Here's a link to the thread that has the link to all the parts charts.
https://www.victoriansweatshop.com/post/retrieving-lost-singer-parts-manuals-that-were-deleted-from-their-website-10592948?pid=1312027250

Ericka

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #118 
Plate 944 numbering all the holders.

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summerleas

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Reply with quote  #119 
Does anyone have a style 9 instruction booklet? The only source I know of wants money for a copy.
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #120 
Yes, I do.  I'll email you a scanned copy.
Ericka
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #121 
Hey, John and Peggy, check out this listing on eBay with the tin that has the unknown attachment set:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Singer-VS-2-Treadle-Sewing-Machine/224108241593?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I don't know if the tin is altogether there, but it sure looks like the set that we all have that doesn't have any documentation.  I've contacted the seller to tell them that they have a beautiful machine that I'm sorry I'm too far away from to buy, but would they happen to have a manual that shows the attachments in the tin?  LOL, anyway, I was nice and hopefully they'll get back to me, if nothing else, just to say "no".  I'll let you know if I hear anything and, especially, if I can get a copy of a manual.

Ericka
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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #122 
Ericka - That looks so interesting!
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #123 
Erika i disagree, I think you found a new unknown one. The one we were talking about has that clamping system to keep the presser feet in place under a long bar held by a clasp at the left side. This tin doesn't have that. If you look close with the hovering magnifier on the main page, you can see in the back left bottom corner a raised area covered in velvet that seems to be form for a thin attachment part like a tuck marker etc..

  John Stuart
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #124 
I know the tin is different, but I can't tell if it's because parts have disappeared (like the bar, which I've seen happen) and if that is a raised area there, I'm thinking it might be for a screwdriver to go around, but no telling.  The main thing to me was that the ruffler was the same and I saw at least one hemmer that was also the same, as well as the underbraider and shirring plates.  Tucker looks different, but who knows?  But I did hear back from the seller, telling me that s/he could take a picture of the attachments in the tin, but "what did I want to accomplish with the part?"  Oh golly, well, I'd really like to buy just your manual, please, lol.  No, I didn't say that.  I asked him/her for the pics of the empty tin and the parts and asked again if they had a manual that showed the attachments in use.  And, if they would be willing to separate those from the machine, I would be willing to buy them.  Of course, I didn't expect them to want to do that, so I offered to pay them for a scan of a manual, if they have one.  We'll see what comes of it.

Ericka
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summerleas

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp7wvr


John - These 2 ruffler look to be the “flip-out” style. Are these what you have? They were in two of my Style 14 tins for 27 and 28 machines. Good to see something new to me.


There is a slot (red arrow) that makes it impossible to flip out the lower blade so that it is horizontal, and the ruffler cannot be used with it in this position.

So why is the slot there? And what is the reason for being able to flip out the lower blade?

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #126 
I wish I had one of these rufflers to look over, but can't find a single one around here, unbelievable!  I can understand why you'd want to flip out the lower blade - you can take that lower blade off most rufflers with the turn of a screw.  But with it flipped out like that I don't see how it could be used, either.  Who does have that ruffler?  Peggy?  John?

Ericka
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #127 
And now back to the tin and attachments that Peggy, John and I have and the other one that I found on eBay.  I heard back from the seller and they said that there was no manual and they "want to sell everything in the deal".  Well, okay, they were originally offering to take pics of the attachments and tin for me and now they don't want to do anything more, even for money.  Nonetheless, I was very nice in my reply and they replied by telling me to have a great day.  Soooo, unless somebody else wants to express an interest in the machine, but needs to get a better pic of the attachments, we're at a dead end.  I'm wondering if that tin is even the original tin.  Who knows, maybe the original got lost or damaged and the attachments were tossed into a completely different tin.  We'll never know unless somebody else inquires....

Ericka
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #128 
Richard, i am sorry i missed the questions. My ruffler like your one shown does swing to the upright position. That little slot is for it to stay stable when it is under the other blade. IMG_0568.jpg     above is closed under the top blade.  
IMG_0569 (2).jpg  above is what it would look like opened flat on the table, just from below.
IMG_0571.jpg  above is top down with the lower blade full open to the upward position.

 You can use the one blade for plating as you sew, all be it small folds. Great for making old style surgical masks. I have directions, just can't find the file. looking though.

  John Stuart

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summerleas

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Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstuart
Richard, i am sorry i missed the questions. My ruffler like your one shown does swing to the upright position.

  John Stuart


OK, problem solved! After looking at your pictures and my ruffler I eventually realised what is wrong. (My brain can be very slow and miss the obvious!) On my ruffler the piece that goes into the slot has been bent to the wrong position. When I bent it to the position in your ruffler it worked!
 
 

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #130 
Well, I'm glad that mystery's solved because I couldn't for the life of me figure out how your picture (Richard) would ever work, nor how John's ruffler related to it.  Bent parts are always a problem when you don't realize they're bent 😉
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #131 
Adding a photo of my mystery attachment box. The ruffler and tuck marker look to be the same as what have been discussed. The three parts on the right were included but might not belong in the box. Could anyone ID those parts? I think the large plate also came with it. Not sure about that though.

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #132 
Hey, Mkwatts,
I think we've got two different, but similar, mystery attachment boxes.  I'm re-posting the pic that Peggy previously shared in this post of the two different styles of boxes that appear to have the same attachments in them.
image.jpg 
One box has those round knobs that can be moved to change the width and I forget how the bar comes out 'cause I can't find mine right now.  The other box has a bar that pulls out just a bit from the left and then comes up to release all the little metal squared-off holders for each foot.  We've yet to find any documentation on either of these boxes and/or attachments. 

As for your set, I think your photo posted upside-down, so I'm looking at the curved piece to the far right and I'm unable to ID that.  I don't know if a close-up pic would help me or not, I suspect not and that it does not belong in the set.  The piece next to it is the shirring plate that goes on the ruffler.  Take a look at this pic of my ruffler that needs cleaning and you can hopefully see your part on my ruffler and how it might attach.  Look for the part on the outer edge of the ruffler that has a small round circle that goes over a "bump" that is on the main body of the ruffler.  That should help get you going to figure out how to screw it back on.
20200715_102656.jpg 
The last piece that I think you're asking about is the cloth/seam guide that is screwed into something, but I can't tell what or if the thing it's screwed into belongs in the box or not.  Free the screw and then we might be able to tell you what that other thing is 😉  Congrats on the score.

Ericka

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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerleas


OK, problem solved! After looking at your pictures and my ruffler I eventually realised what is wrong. (My brain can be very slow and miss the obvious!) On my ruffler the piece that goes into the slot has been bent to the wrong position. When I bent it to the position in your ruffler it worked!
 
 


Richard - Mine flip out like John described.  These are so curious.  Thanks for the study on these rufflers.
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warp7wvr

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Reply with quote  #134 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkwatts
Adding a photo of my mystery attachment box. The ruffler and tuck marker look to be the same as what have been discussed. The three parts on the right were included but might not belong in the box. Could anyone ID those parts? I think the large plate also came with it. Not sure about that though.


Mkwatts - I do not recognize those parts.  My mystery box has a large plate like yours.  It looks like your screwdriver fits better in the holder.  The screwdrivers in my set are like those in a Singer wooden puzzle box but they do not fit securely on the holders.  What does your box look like on the outside?  Is it silver or copper?  Does it have writing?  
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #135 
Somehow, I missed the second pic in your post when I made my reply.  I believe all of the plates in your pic, with the exception of the one on the far right, lower line, do not go with your box.  That one plate is a fiddle-base shirring plate that fits on a 27 machine.  There should have been a similar underbraider plate that would have gone in the tin, but I don't see it in your pic. 

To ID what you have, I'll start with the upper line, left:
An underbraider plate and I'm not sure what machine it fits, an older underbraider plate for the model 66 machine, a newer underbraider plate for the model 66/99 machines, a shirring plate for the model 66/99 machines, a different shirring plate for the 27/127 machines.

Now, going to the lower line, starting from the left:
A shirring plate for an unknown machine, I would say an underbraider plate for an unknown machine but it looks like there's something more like a hemmer on the plate (so I can't say without a better pic), a shirring plate and then an underbraider plate for an unknown machine (maybe a White rotary?), a shirring plate for a Wheeler Wilson machine and then the shirring plate for the fiddlebase 27 machine that goes with your tin.

Hope that helps,
Ericka
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