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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've been trying to figure out what parts/attachments came with some of the Singer 12, Improved Family, etc type machines and I have an 1882 price list that shows some of those items.  One of them is a "double" quilting bar that looked kinda familiar.  Soooo, I dug through my "pile of things that I don't know what they go to and should maybe investigate someday" and found the quilting bar pictured below. 

First, here's the page from the manual that shows something that is somewhat similar, but I don't think is quite it.
Attachments Page.jpg
On the second row from the top there are three different quilting bars and the one on the left is the one that is the closest to what I have, but it's juuuuust a little different.  Here's a pic of the quilting bar that I have and, unfortunately, I failed to soak it in oil, use JB Blaster on it or put it in the sonic cleaner before trying to move the two end bars away from the middle section, so there was a piece of that middle section that just broke off and is being held in place by needle-nose pliers in the pic until the whole thing gets cleaned, lubed and then JB Welded.
IMG_0427.jpg 
Yes, there is a Singer stamp on that piece in the middle, but it's VERY poorly stamped and I can't make out a portion of it.  What I can see is "THE SINGER MANU" and then maybe something about Patent info, but it doesn't look right, and then the address that appears to be "47 CHEAPSIDE E LONDON".  I spent some time trying to look up any kind of patent info, but nada.  Anyway, if anybody can make out from this closeup pic what it says, please let me know.  And if you've seen this before and know what it goes to, let me know that, too!
IMG_0425.jpg
Lastly, here's a pic that I took of some feet that I got in a pile of items that didn't have great pics.  I thought these feet might be some unusual 66-1 attachments since there were some other older 66-1 parts in there, but these were fairly hidden in the pics and now I have no idea what machine they would go to. 
Unknown Feet.jpg
I know that the brass seam guide went with a lot of IF, Model 12 and I believe even a few VS machiines.  And the needle case you would think is the usual Singer metal needle case, but it's just a tiny bit smaller than that case and doesn't have the "scribing" on the area that lid slides down to.  And the lid is brass, which doesn't match the silver of the case.  The lid is also cracked, so it doesn't fit particularly well.  Maybe it's not the original lid, who knows.  The "bobby pin" shaped thing opens wider at the left end and I think we've pretty well figured out that it was designed to hold hemmers.  Now, how you attach this to the bed of the machine after putting the hemmer into it is still something I don't quite picture.  The hemmer to the left looks like someone took a Wheeler Wilson #9 seam guide, cut out a part of the "9" and welded on a hemmer to it.  They didn't do a great job and there seem to be needle holes near where the hemmer piece flares out - really weird.  And then there's the strange thing that looks like a lock, but isn't.  It has a patent date on it, so I'll try looking that up, too, at some point.  Anyways, if somebody knows what machine all the feet go to, please let me know.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
Ericka

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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #2 
I know Singer had an office 39 foster lane and 147 cheapside. Here is a link with some UK info on the company https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Singer_Manufacturing_Co . Two adverts to the right one 1882 39 foster and 1894 the 147 Cheapside east central london "cheapside ec" london.

  John Stuart
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstuart
I know Singer had an office 39 foster lane and 147 cheapside.

  John Stuart


I had seen a Cheapside, London address for Singer before, so that wasn't a big surprise to me.  What I really need is to have a more readable stamp in the middle area to see if any of that is a hint of a patent number or something that could lead to some other manual that would show it.  I'm not all that hopeful of finding out a lot about this (most likely) quilting bar, unless somebody else has also seen one that came with a machine instead of in a pile of attachments.

But what's interesting about that bar and also the quilting bar shown in the Singer parts list is that there are two arms on them, rather than the normal bars with only one arm, which are pretty much all I've ever seen.  The Singer parts list shows that quilter as "Quilter (double) with thumb screw" for the NF, Med and 4 machines.  The other 2 quilters pictured appear to be single bar affairs and for the NF, then the IF and IM machines.  The quilter I have is a double, but does not have a thumb screw and it looks to me like the rounded part of the arms are much more circular and pointy at the ends than any other I've ever seen.  So, again, not *quite* the same.

Lastly, have you seen feet like the ones in my picture before?  They're definitely not 66-1 feet and they also don't look like industrials to me, but my knowledge of industrials is pretty limited.

Thanks, Ericka
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #4 
Isn't the difference just the one pictured is adjustable left and right from the middle, and the one you have is fixed in the middle by a weld originally?

  John Stuart
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstuart
Isn't the difference just the one pictured is adjustable left and right from the middle, and the one you have is fixed in the middle by a weld originally?

  John Stuart


No, the one that I have can move both the arms on each side and the middle piece also moves.  None of the three pieces moves easily, but I've run it through the sonic cleaner and think I just need to use a little steel wool to finish cleaning 100 years' worth of crud. That should help to get them just to the point where they move without too much effort but also stay in place using friction.  The one in the parts list picture is adjustable in the middle using a thumbscrew and I don't know if the two sides move or not. 

So mine is definitely different from the one pictured in the parts list, but I've also never seen one like what's shown in the parts list.  So, who knows what was actually sent out with the machines over time.  Plus, there's the factor of what might have been provided in the US vs UK market.  That parts list is from the US and I'm thinking the quilting bar I have came with a pile of items that also had quite a few UK and German items.  Don't recall seeing any other things in that pile that look like the pics in the parts list, but that's been a few years ago.  I'll have to try and think back and see what my rememberer can do 😉

Ericka


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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #6 
Look what I just found in the Singer New Family manual.  A completely different quilting bar from the one I have and I'm not sure if it's the same as the one in the 1882 Price List or not.  Unfortunately, this New Family manual doesn't have a date on it, but it shows the quilter has having two movable arms that go into some kind of piece that has a thumbscrew to adjust each arm. 
New Family Quilter.jpg 

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swyper501

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Reply with quote  #7 
That set of feet - is there a bar or roller behind the needle hole for carrying some braid or ribbon?  I wonder if they are intended to be used with some sort of attachment foot which is not present with the set.  Or, is there any way that the lock-thing in the photo relates to the set of feet?  The safety pin thing - doesn't that look as though it would be a wrench used to tighten/loosen some of the shank collars used on some machines?  I had a Wilcox & Gibbs wrench - I think it was - and that reminds me of it.

Sharon Wyper
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks for the reply on the feet, Sharon.  As far as I can tell, the bar on the feet is only to enable them be articulating.  I suppose it's possible that someone *might* be able to slide some braid underneath the articulating top, but it would certainly not be easy.  There's very little room, just enough to allow the front part of the foot to move up to allow thicker fabrics through, really.  But it was a good idea to check out.  A couple of them are just rusty enough that they'd need to be broken free before they'll articulate again, lol.

I've wondered if they weren't for something like the Junker & Ruh (I think) type machines that have an odd presser bar, but I've not seen those machines in person to get a really good look at how their feet attach.  And, now that I think about it, I think those feet are actually the opposite of these.  The feet have a bar that fit into a slot on the presser bar, so these would be backward from that. 

As for the lock-type thing, I can't see how it would fit in with any of this.  I tried doing a quick search of the patent date of April 21, 1885 under the sewing category, and didn't come up with anything.  If I take the sewing category off and see everything patented that date, I come up with over 400 patents to look through, and that's assuming they got the patent date right on it.  I was looking up some patents on a tucker the other day with about 4-5 different patent dates on it and found all but one.  I finally searched everything within the month of the year it was patented, went through those, found the patent and discovered that they had stamped the wrong date on the attachment!!!

I know that there were various special wrenches used to tighten/loosen collars and such on machines, but every one of those that I've seen was open-ended to make it easy to get in and out of the area, but you were still able to squeeze it tight to make it work.  You didn't "latch" it in position, but I could be wrong.  Also, I posted this pic in another thread and Romwen shared a pic of the exact same thing that he had found with a couple of different Howe machines.  Here's what he said in that post:

"I may be able to identify your "safety pin". Both of my Howe treadles came with one of those in the drawer. I finally realized it could clamp onto some other oddball attachments in the drawers. I'll try to attach a picture. Don't know how well these would work. The latch on the safety pin isn't very secure."  And here's the pic he attached showing it with some hemmers:
[20200805_173819]
Hopefully he doesn't mind me transferring his comments and picture over here.  I can see where you'd need a really big shank on that clamp screw to be able to go over this thing and really tighten it down well.

Is this the Willcox Gibbs wrench you're thinking of at the bottom of the picture?
  Untitled.jpg 


Anyway, maybe someday I'll figure out what those feet go to.  I did notice a big "2" stamped on the single wide foot, so I'm guessing there are more of them out there.  It's strange because these came with a pile of stuff that included really old 66-1 attachments and a lot of cabinet parts, including both cast iron leaf supports, brass hinges and brass bonnet fittings.  I would normally lean toward some type of industrial foot on these, but with all that in the pile, I'm just not sure about that.

Thanks for the ideas.  I'll have to mull them over and maybe take a look at a Howe manual or look through a few more Willcox Gibbs ones 😉

Ericka


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swyper501

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Reply with quote  #9 
Oh, no, not the wrench like in the photo at bottom, this "wrench" was more a hairpin device that the U-bend went around the presser bar collar and the legs had to be squeezed in the hand, which I didn't like to do.  It might have been with a National machine, I can't be sure.

I'm quite convinced by the installation of the "safety pin" on the bed of the Howe where it was found to attach those hemmers.  I wonder if it is designed to allow one to rotate the hemmer to make the hem pass exactly into the needle where the stitch is desired?  The threaded part of the bed screw would not have to be very big to secure the safety pin, as the strength of the threads in tension is a lot - you can't pull out a screw.  The shoulder or underside of the knurled head would provide the gripping surface on the legs of the safety pin.

Since part of your set now has a Howe association - any Howe industrial machines to look at for a match?  So intrigued by the lock thing - I was hoping it was some kind of button attachment device for those odd feet.  Is the back of it similar to the front?

Sharon Wyper
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #10 
I know the wrench you're describing and thought I had one in my screwdriver/wrench collection.  I know I saw another one of those just a week or so ago when I was searching through piles for something for someone else, but thought I had one in my "collection area".  Of course, now I can't find it, lol!  I need more caffeine.

I think the "safety pin" thing is also for hemmers, which unfortunately, did not come with this pile.  Maybe we'll start calling it the hemmer holder from now on.  What I was trying to say about a big screw was that the shank of the screw that would fit against the hemmer holder and tighten it to the bed would have to be fairly wide since the holder is about 5/8" wide.  The threads could be the usual size, but the shank would either need to be fairly big or you'd need a washer.

As for the lock thing - I just can't see how it would be sewing machine-related, but I've been known to be wrong before 😉.  I took more pics for you, but unless I go through those 400-some patents, I don't think I'm going to figure that one out.  Here's both sides and another shot that's looking at it from the side, near where the hasp is.  BTW, that hasp does NOT open or move that either of us here can figure out.  The circles with the numbers on the outside will spin around the hasp, but no other movement than that.
Lock.jpg
Yes, I think I might have to look into the Howe machines to see if there were any kind of feet like these made for them at some point.  I was hoping someone might recognize them and save me a lot of searching [wink]

Thanks, Ericka


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swyper501

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Reply with quote  #11 
Oh, thanks for the photos of the lock thing!  It is jewelry!  Believe it or not, I have bits of broken jewelry in the treadle drawers, a pendant from a broken necklace, a fine fancy bead, etc., in case I want to finish off a zipper with a dandy zipper pull, or add bling to a bag.  I bet this lock thing was sometime on a chain necklace with a heart pendant - the 60's were so romantic, compared to now.  :-D

Sharon Wyper
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hi Erica - I don't mind your posting my info on the Howe "safety pin" hemmer holder, especially since I hadn't gotten to it! Even though both Howes had them, I don't know if they were a Howe thing. Both machines also have regular Howe attachments, and the copy of a Howe manual I have doesn't mention them. Looking at them again I just now discovered that the "safety pin" on the machine I didn't take the pic of doesn't actually fit the "bump" of its hemmers - its round end is too big. Curiouser and curiouser. I'm afraid I can't help at all with the feet.

Kathy R
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hmmm, more to think about, Kathy.  Thanks for being okay with me copying your post over here 😉  I know there were various hemmers with those "bumps" made and I'm going to have to pull a few that I have out and see if any of the others fit.  I think we're just going to have to keep our eyes open....

Thanks for the reply,
Ericka
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #14 
The hemmer holder that doesn't fit the bumps has stamped on one side "PAT.SEPT.16.73" The other side had something stamped on it too, but the stamp was off center and only half of it is there, and I can't decipher it.

Kathy R
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OurWorkbench

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericka
... but unless I go through those 400-some patents, I don't think I'm going to figure that one out.  Here's both sides and another shot that's looking at it from the side, near where the hasp is.  BTW, that hasp does NOT open or move that either of us here can figure out.  The circles with the numbers on the outside will spin around the hasp, but no other movement than that....


I found it for you!   http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US316345.pdf

Now you just have to find the right combination out of 100 choices to open it. A little easier than looking through 400 patents [wink]

Janey

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #16 
Aha!  Your hemmer holder had a patent date stamped on it??!!  Mine has nothing stamped on it.  So, with the patent date, I only had to go through 2 patents to find it.  It's patent # 142812 here: 
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0142812.pdf

Invented by John G. Powell and titled "Clamps for Sewing Machine Attachments".  Pretty much exactly what we thought.  Used to attach hemmers and other attachments - no machines referenced in the patent document.  Maybe you just don't have the hemmers with the right sized "bumps", Kathy.  I'll try what few I have here to see if anything fits better.

Thanks for finding the patent for the lock, Janey.  Maybe someday I'll get around to finding the combination to open it, lol.  What a weird pile of stuff in that listing.  Now to just figure out the feet....

Ericka
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OurWorkbench

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romwen
The hemmer holder that doesn't fit the bumps has stamped on one side "PAT.SEPT.16.73" ...


That one was easier to find.  I googled patent 1873 sewing "Sept 16"   and got a result for an ebay listing, but when clicked on the link, I got an error. However, the words gave the info needed --

Vintage 1873 Rare Metal Sewing Machine Adjustable Clamp ...

http://www.ebay.com › ... › Sewing Machine Parts
 
Very good used condition shows typical wear from age and use including scuffs and scratches, nice 1873 relic by J.G. Powell patent number 142812 Sept 16

Janey

Erika beat me- I was trying to figure out how to word how I found it. [biggrin]

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OurWorkbench

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Reply with quote  #18 
For further reading regarding Egge locks & sewing machines  - https://sewalot.com/smith_&_egge_sewing_machines_little_gem.htm

Janey

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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #19 
Great sleuthing by Ericka & Janey! I had tried going through the Patent Office site & got nowhere. Tomorrow I'll see if having a name helps me figure out what the half-stamped words are!

Kathy R
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #20 
With better light and magnification it looks like the poorly stamped lettering is just a a repeat of the Patent date. I thought it would be cool if it had actually said "Powell" or something. Ah well - at least some of the mystery has been solved!

BTW, the lock is too cool!

Kathy R
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hey, Janey, yeah, looks like we crossed paths in the ether, but at least we both came to the same thing, lol!  All I care about are correct facts.  And thanks for pointing out the Egge site - VERY interesting.  I'm afraid I wasn't paying as much attention to that lock patent to see "Egge" as the inventor - duh.  Interesting that they stamped the patent date instead of their name (or both) on the hasp of that lock.  If they could stamp the patent date on one side, why not stamp Egge or whatever on the other side? 

And I'm really glad that Kathy's holder had a patent date stamped on it.  FYI, Kathy, what I do when I find a patent date is go to that freepatentsonline site and do the "Quick Search", then put in the patent date in the Publication Date area, then put 112 in the Current US Classification area.  The 112 number is for sewing-related items.  Knitting and other type items are a different number, so I almost always get good results using 112.  But, also, some of the really old patents haven't been given a classification, so they don't always come up.  The reason why I wasn't coming up with the patent for the lock is it had a classification of 70, which I presume is having to do with locks.  I've looked up various classification numbers for different types of textile items, but haven't bothered doing more than that.  If I had put 70 in the classification area, it would have brought the patent right up for me, lol.  That's why it's good to have several different brains working on a problem - everybody comes at it a different way and hopefully they end up in the same place!  Of course, this only works if the date is stamped correctly on the item, the correct info has been entered into the online database and the user types the right info the fields, lol!  I've had the unfortunate experience of having all three of those different problems occur with various searches....

Definitely let us know if you make out what's on the half-stamped part.  Oh, I see you've beaten me to a post and found the half-stamp is just a repeat of the patent date.  Well, hopefully, today I'll see if I can find some other hemmers that might fit with the holder better.

And, someday, maybe we'll get lucky on those crazy feet!

Ericka
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks for the info on the freepatentsonline site, Ericka! I've always tried to fight my way around the patent office site, usually with little luck, although it did come up with the patent info on my 1877 seam ripper. Actually, if you tighten the bed screw down far enough on the too-big clamp it should hold the hemmer in place, although one of mine needs a washer to get tight enough. And the clamp (nice to have its proper designation!) needs to have its latching bar part pushing down on the latch part.

Kathy R
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #23 
Well, the patent does say something about a washer maybe being needed to get the screw to tighten down properly, so not surprising.  I know I have quite a few thumbscrews around here with really big shanks that might actually fit around that clamp (good to have a proper name, indeed!), but who knows if the screw threads would go into the bed of the machine.  I'll worry about all that later when I have a machine in the proper date range to try it on 😉

Ericka
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #24 
Speaking of mystery things from the Howe drawers, anybody have an idea what this is?

Attached Images
jpeg 20200822_115910.jpg (297.46 KB, 16 views)

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #25 
Wow, I am drawing a complete blank on what that might be.  I'm going to have to let that percolate in the ol' noggin for a while to see if anything comes up from the depths.  Hopefully somebody else will have some ideas that could at least jog some back-and-forth conversation.

Ericka
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #26 
That drawer a!so came with a bunch of very obviously not-sewing-machine bits, so it may not be sewing related at all.

Kathy R
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Madmurdock75

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romwen
Speaking of mystery things from the Howe drawers, anybody have an idea what this is?


Bed mounted tiny cupholder?

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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmurdock75


Bed mounted tiny cupholder?


[rofl]
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Romwen

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Reply with quote  #29 
😂 Good one!!
Might hold a little shot glass 🍹
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Madmurdock75

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romwen
😂 Good one!!
Might hold a little shot glass 🍹


For when your project goes wrong!

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