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Octavius

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Reply with quote  #1 
For a green Supermatic.
Looks like this, but not broke [smile]

Thread take up lever.jpg 


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ke6cvh

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Octavius,  If you can't find someone parting out a green supermatic (we actually have three color schemes of the 1950's machine)....and you cannot find one on eBay recommend you try the yahoo group "elna heirlooms" if you haven't already.  Likely there is someone there who may be able to help also.  Best regards, Mike
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Octavius

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Reply with quote  #3 
Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to post your suggestions.
I'll try the yahoo group!
Cheers!
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Octavius

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Reply with quote  #4 
Doesn't seem to be much activity on that Yahoo group site - did they all up and move?

I found a replacement lever on eBay.

Cheers
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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #5 
I think most Yahoo groups have gone either to Facebook or to Groups.IO, it's another group platform.

Cari

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Olympia Washington
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Octavius

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Reply with quote  #6 
Cari,
Thanks for the info.
Pity they could not go to a proper forum type site like this but I suppose that would need someone to host and pay for the site.
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ke6cvh

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Reply with quote  #7 
Hello group,  The Elna group is obviously for just Elna machines only.  I received my digest today with 10 messages on it.  There is one person, Jim, out of New Zealand that is a big help.  Farmer John used to help me out on that group also.  He machined a double groove friction drive for the motors that I was lucky enough to buy some of for the Supermatic.  I then took it to a local machine shop and had more made.  In their files section should be the dimensions for getting one machined.  They use two 5 cent o-rings and work just fine.  I also have one for a White machine that he made and can easily reproduce locally now.  That group is where I learned things like why some of the cams tend to pop out while others don't and got assistance changing out the nylon gear (there is one in the machine that will surely go under regular use if it is the original 50 year plus nylon gear still in it).  I got my replacement nylon gear (everything else is metal) from eBay and got it in fine.  So, to sum it up I've been able to get the help I needed when I needed it from that group.  We have three supermatics and a grasshopper but I quickly migrated to heavy work machines and 1800's vintage as well as specialized industrials for making work wear.  However, there is a use for our Supermatics that I need to try out.  It is our only low shank machine with a large selection of pattern discs so it is just begging for it to be used with a flower foot we bought off ebay to make some very cool designs.

Best regards,
Mike
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Octavius

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Reply with quote  #8 
Mike,

Thanks for the interesting post about the Yahoo group.

Ha! The nylon gear.  Just recently I spent a happy hour using a toothbrush to clean off all the old grease and then applying a grease supplied by the Featherweight people.  Something in the back of my mind was nagging me so I went to the Featherweight site and, sure enough, it said "Do not use this lube with any plastic or nylon gears".  So then I spent an unhappy hour getting it all off.
Later I read that Mr. White uses Triflow grease - I might use that - not sure if it actually needs it, Elna didn't say anything about lubricating the nylon gear.

Cheers
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ke6cvh

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi, I'm not so sure I'd be worried about the deathly "don't use oil/grease on nylon gears".  There are lots of modern cars that unfortunately use nylon timing gears and the inside of these engines get quite dirty.  I think it was Farmer John that first mentioned this to me.  Yes, there are different grades/types of nylon but it's pretty much been around since ww2 so I don't think that is much of a factor either.  However, over time dirt can get in there and grease does attract dirt.  And over stressing the old nylon gear can cause heartache.  I know on our diesel van it is recommended to replace the nylon timing gear a certain amount of km driven or a certain amount of years driven.  It's a whole heck of allot less than 50 years they recommend the replacement interval so I think father time and use have the biggest play (and maybe dirt) then does oil or grease.....just my 2 cents.  Best regards, Mike
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JonesHand52

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Posts: 204
Reply with quote  #10 
There are volumes written and spoken re the use of oil or grease on nylon gears. The general consensus is don't do it. 


In the manual the comes with the Kenmore model 120.491 that uses nylon cams and gears the manual clearly states that you do not oil this machine. It was stated that the nylon gears do not require lubrication, and it has been stated time and again that nylon is "self lubricating". 

However, when I got my 60+ year old Kenmore 49s, they were sticky and slow due to age and definitely needed lubrication. What I did was spray the nylon parts with silicone lubricant and voila!, they now run perfectly. Metal parts were lubricated with oil as usual. 

There is no problem using a silicone lubricant, which I believe Tri-Flo grease is. I have never used Tri-Flo grease because I can't get it here, and would have to pay double the price with shipping to get any, but the spray lubricant has met my needs and works fine. 

I believe - and could be wrong - that the problem with using petroleum based lubricants on nylon is that it damages the nylon itself. How they are using it in cars may be because they are using synthetic lubricants. My Honda Civic uses synthetic motor oil, not petroleum. 

My comments are free and worth every penny, so take that as it is. 

-Bruce


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ke6cvh

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hi group,  nylon absorbs a small amount of water.  oil impregnated nylon (yes, they make nylon with oil impregnated into it) also will absorb a small amount of water.  the gears gum up from foreign contamination and the lubricant no longer being in it's shelf life.  I agree with Bruce of course about the silicone lube.  The gear in discussion is a nylon on metal and not nylon on nylon which does change the game somewhat.  I'm not so certain about the nylon swelling up being any kind of real issue as the gears just don't mate together with super tight tolerances.  Inside the kitchen for example they will use food safe grease (on kitchen aide) appliances where there is nylon gear in contact with metal gear.  Color can be a giveaway if graphite was added to the nylon.  So many types of nylons out there (ex. glass filled nylon which I've never heard being used in a gear as it would likely be a disaster to do that).  If the nylon was going to swell up it would do that with moisture/humidity changes and they wouldn't make oil impregnated nylon.  From what I've read there has been some advancements in nylon but the replacement gears are surely being done up on a table top cnc mill machine using common 66 grade nylon which has incredible abrasion resistance but nylons have poor impact resistance and if they "cheaped out" likely only nylon 6.  What I've read is that a big factor is the roughness of the mating gear (i.e. when mated to a metal gear) and that would also be a big factor with dirt.  I've also read some greases are better than others with nylon.  I always have silicone oil sitting around here and wouldn't hesitate to use it on a nylon gear.  However, I differ in that I'd also use other oils if I felt it was necessary.  Some oils are nothing more than long chain waxes, likely would have no effect on the nylon, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them either and have them in the house with zero additives in them.  Others oils have lots of additives as they're repackaged light machine oil (Juki-M oil is actually a light machinery oil and pretty caustic stuff on the hands).  Best regards, Mike
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jrwhalley

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Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #12 
3M makes a silicone paste lube p/n# 08946 that works well and is safe on rubber and plastic (but I still wouldn't smear it on rubber cog belts) that goes for around $20 for an 8 oz. brush-in-cap bottle. Used to use AGS (American Grease Stick) Sil-Glyde lube p/n# SG-8, which was around $14 for an 8 oz.tube, but I think the 3M product is "slipperier" and in any case 8 oz. is a lifetime supply for most purposes. Any good auto parts store or industrial supplier like Graingers or McMaster Carr should have it.
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