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Guy Montana

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Hello everyone, I have this great old Singer 201 on my bench. We have 21 years of experience in the shop, and we cant figure out why this machine wont rotate. Any help or ideas would be WONDERFULLY appreciated!!! It moves super smoothly till a sudden stop. I opened all the gear boxes and there is nothing in the teeth and no broken ones. Attached is the only visible damage we can see. The crack to the thread guide below the feed dogs. None of the linkage seems to be hitting anything to prevent it from spinning. I just do not want this machine to get tossed just because they think it can’t work again.... I know we are just missing something.....

Please help the confused repairman to not have to tell the lady her machine can’t be fixed......

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jpeg EC6AB8EF-D949-4356-B564-A508F54D3253.jpeg (503.98 KB, 53 views)

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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #2 
My usual method is to disconnect a main up to down link and then cycle the upper and lower systems to isolate which half the issue resides in.  I have even repeated the process with just the lower half to see which side the jam was on....
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Guy Montana

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Thats a place to start!!! Thanks Steve!!!
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David

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Have you loosened the stop motion to make sure the motor isn't binding?  Any time I have any issue with a potted motor machine the first thing I do is pull off the motor and put on 9 spoke wheel and hand crank it for a while until I can feel where it binds up. 

Are the feed dogs causing that clean spot on the guide?  It looks like it is right at the crack.  Could they be locking on it during their motion?  From the photo is looks like the feed dogs are rubbing against the needle plate in several spots as well.  Or is that just the lighting?

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David
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #5 
I actually removed the feed dogs and hand wheel to make sure the feed dogs and motor weren’t causing the stopping. They were not. The lighting and that someone didn’t remove the feed dogs or mask them off when they painted.. To be clear: the unit is NOT binding. It will go 1/2 a spin either direction and just stop at the same point. Unit moves SUPER freely for that 1/2 spin.
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Kitcarlson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Check worm gear on motor shaft. If you pull motor, and main shaft spins fine, then it might be worm gear set screws. I think motor shaft has a flat for long set screw, the shorter set screw goes on no flat. The clearance is tight enough, it may only work when screws are correctly placed. There may also be end play adjustment too.
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yeah I checked the motor by removing the hand wheel completely. Same results.... Only 1/2 spin
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Guy Montana

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Well..... That’s weird...... I only replied twice but on my screen is shows a bunch of repeated things...... Sorry for the confusion!


Here’s hoping we can get this thing fixed!
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #9 
I tried to loosen the top shaft from the bottom shaft.... The gear’s set screws are locked up hard.... I have it soaked in Power Lube.
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Kitcarlson

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Reply with quote  #10 
There are 2 cams on main shaft, seen from rear slide cover. They have connecting rods that oscillate front and rear longitudas for feed dog operation. The front can be disable with feed dog drop screw. The rear can be taken apart at lower rod link. It is eccentric stud, so needs to be reset to center feed dog over stitch length swing.
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Dave in middle TN
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Farmer John

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Reply with quote  #11 
I would be rechecking all of the three sets of bevel gears for a broken needle tip.  It could be stuck on top of a tooth or between teeth.
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #12 
I ran a dental pick between all the teeth on the gears I dont even know how many times now.... I too was thinking a broken gear tooth or piece of needle or something else
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David

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Did the machine used to work right or has it been this way since the owner has had it?  Does she know the service history of this machine?  Is it possible that a set of gears were swapped at some point and the new gears weren't properly lapped? Did some adventurous child get a screw driver and pull a gear off at some point? (that would be very bad) I would check them in pairs.  So you don't mess up the lapping on a mated pair.  Loosen a pair, try turning.  If they aren't the cause of the seizing, move on to the next pair.  I always mark all the mated pairs at their mesh points before I start testing this way.  So you know where their original states were and won't blow your timing and create even more work.
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #14 
All I know is her brother was sewing kite material with it. Apparently he thinks he used a wrong bobbin.... There had to be one bad jam up to break that plate the way he did....
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Guy Montana

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All I know is her brother was sewing kite material with it. Apparently he thinks he used a wrong bobbin.... There had to be one bad jam up to break that plate the way he did....
I do know a 201 should never have issues with kite material!!!! Solid machines that they are..... I think he did something way wrong. I am going to try to check the feed dog linkage and see about loosening the bottom from the top to see where the stop point is. We hadn’t tried those ideas yet. Keep the ideas coming tho!! I wanna make this unit work good again!!
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David

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Reply with quote  #16 
Did you try removing the broken position plate as well?  There is a point in the motion where the retaining clips on the hook get close to the plate. I can't tell on you photo if the break is at that point, but if one of the retaining clips hits the edge of the crack that would stop it cold.
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David
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David

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Reply with quote  #17 
Did you track down the problem yet?
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Deb Milton

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Reply with quote  #18 
I see you have eliminated the motor as an issue.  I was going to comment that I had a similar issue.  When Mine stopped it was not a hard stop.  It turned out to be a piece of something, maybe wicking that was getting in the way.  From what I’ve read above, that wouldn’t be your issue, but thought I’d mention it.
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #19 
No solution yet. Have been too busy with other repairs. Also just kind of working over it in my mind. The suggestions are GREAT!!!! I really appreciate everyone’s help!!!! I did remove the broken plate. Nothing and no change. I suspect the feed dog linkage is somehow twisted in its timing, or the sewing head. I have a few things to try. With COVID-19, we went from about 1.5 weeks out on a repair to 4!!!!! I spend more time checking in machines than I do fixing........ Actually if anyone is in the Ogden/Layton Utah area and is looking for sewing machine repair work; please send me a private message and I will send you contact information for the owner of the shop I work for!!!!
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #20 
Well, fortunately the customer let me have it for an additional 2 hours of shop time. I was about to give up; and I found the problem!!! I have no idea how I missed it, and I am having a bit of trouble finding the correct clocking of the rotating parts..... any help would be useful!!!!
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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #21 
Pix

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jpeg FB476B11-2647-4EC5-9A07-DDF9D3179C60.jpeg (486.31 KB, 21 views)

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Guy Montana

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Pix

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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #23 
You can see the up take components are hitting the insides!!! I dont know how I missed seeing that.... But I did. Any clues as to how to get back clocked back where its supposed to be?
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Kitcarlson

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Reply with quote  #24 
Here are pics of needle bar up, and down. Hope this helps.

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jpeg 20200526_211049.jpg (113.17 KB, 21 views)


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Dave in middle TN

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Guy Montana

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Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks Dave! I got the needle doing its job now. But the tension assy was completely wrong also. Burrs on stitch hook all kinds of worn parts. I cant get it to sew correctly within the customer’s budget. So unfortunately this project is done...... If it was my machine I would definitely keep at it. These old 201-k’s will sew threw anything you can put under the pressure foot.....
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Jeanette Frantz

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Montana
No solution yet. Have been too busy with other repairs. Also just kind of working over it in my mind. The suggestions are GREAT!!!! I really appreciate everyone’s help!!!! I did remove the broken plate. Nothing and no change. I suspect the feed dog linkage is somehow twisted in its timing, or the sewing head. I have a few things to try. With COVID-19, we went from about 1.5 weeks out on a repair to 4!!!!! I spend more time checking in machines than I do fixing........ Actually if anyone is in the Ogden/Layton Utah area and is looking for sewing machine repair work; please send me a private message and I will send you contact information for the owner of the shop I work for!!!!


Guy, there's a 201 Adjusters Manual in the Manuals Section of this forum, posted on December 6, 2017,   That Adjusters Manual should help.  Otherwise, I don't know of anything I can do to help since I have virtually no experience actually working on the 201 -- my son does that for me -- he worked in that field for 14 years!

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Jeanette Frantz, Ocala, Florida
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