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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #1 
A singer 206k25 is my mil's Christmas Gift to me. That means I chose it and she will wrap it. My kind if present!:)

It came with attachments and a large number of needles. But no manual. I have read the posts here but there isn't too much info on the internet on this model so I thought I would ask the group about the feed dogs. The online 306 manual shows a silver knob/screw underneath to lower feed dogs but I didn't see one during my quick peek at my machine before handing it over to mil.

Does the 206k25 have a feed dog drop knob? Has anyone found the manual on line? I did see the adjusters manual on line. I would be grateful for any info on these questions.
Thanks. Marsha



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OurWorkbench

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Reply with quote  #2 
There are manuals for the 206 and the 206K25 at https://www.singer.com/search/support?title=206

It looks like there is a raised darning plate for the 206K25, which would indicate that the feed dogs will not drop. However, the manual for the 206 looks like the feed dogs do drop.

Janey

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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #3 
Here are the manuals you need for the Singer 206. 

https://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/2983/

- Bruce


 
Attached Files
pdf Singer 206K25 Repair and Adjusters manual.pdf (2.21 MB, 13 views)

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks very much for the manuals!
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manicmike

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Reply with quote  #5 
I have a 1950 206K10 and there is no feed dog drop screw. Additionally it only swings to the left with the needle position knob.
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #6 
There is no feed dog drop on the Singer 206K25. Do you have the manual? Here it is. 

The needle will swing both ways- left or centered - see page 24 of the manual. 

There is a needle plate with a raised center for free motion and darning work for the 206, 306 and 319. Also, see page 112 of Hey! Check This Out! thread for extensive discussion on these models. 

- Bruce

 
Attached Files
pdf Singer 206K25 instruction manual.pdf (20.86 MB, 7 views)
pdf Singer 206K25 Repair and Adjusters manual.pdf (2.21 MB, 3 views)

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #7 
Is there any reason not to use a molded 401a power cord with my 206? The 206 came with one that screws together and looks like someone replaced the cord with brown lamp cord.

I saw a Singer 319 for sale. If you had an obsession with vintage decorative cam machines, and already had 401 with all the cams, would you NEEED a 319? Many of the stitch patterns look similar. I wondered if the 319 had other wondrous virtues that would set it apart from the 401.













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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #8 
The 319 has a lot of things going for it. 1st, it's cool. 2nd, the 401 has about 22 cams, the flat cams for the 319 number 31 if you count the plain zigzag cam, which is built in to the 319. These are different from the Singer Hi-hat cams the 401 uses and mount on the drive on the outside of the machine. 

The 319 can be treadled. It requires a tad of modification to make it a good treadle, and a lot of work to be made into a hand crank successfully, but can be done. By simply reworking an extra bobbin case, it will also take 15x1 needles. The 319 is one of my favorite machines. See the discussion of the 319 on page 112 of Hey! Check it out! thread on Victorian Sweatshop. 

- Bruce Singer 319k with spoke wheel and spring belt.jpg  Singer 319w hand crank project.jpg 

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks. Would the paint wear on the knobs and typewriter keys an discoloration to the light housing concern you as the machine being worn out? Or can you wear them out?

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jpeg 20191211_164604 (1).jpg (234.40 KB, 17 views)
jpeg 20191211_164628 (1).jpg (148.10 KB, 14 views)

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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #10 
Wow! Unless I miss my guess, that may be a British version of the 319, as I know they were not always the two tone green or the black models like the ones destined for sale in the US, but I also know that the early 319s had painted levers, later issued with chrome plated levers. The tan color is the standard color of the earlier 306, aside from black, so this may very well be and early, early Singer 319! The color of the light housing is consistent with many of the 306 machines as they were cast plastic compound, not painted metal, so the pigment match was not close. 

An early machine, I would bet on it. Also, whether the Singer power cord is screwed together Bakelite or molded rubber would make no difference as long as the 3 plugs are there. The plug set for a 306 will also work on the 319 and those show up on auction sites in Singer 306 tan. 

Paint wear on the levers is normal, and no doubt why Singer had them chromed on later production machines. Besides the fancy look, they wear better. However, on the later chrome ones, there are decals or inserts in the keys that can be missing. I replaced one with a custom made decal made from a photo of the keys I found online on one of my 319s. 

-Bruce
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #11 
I have a friend picking up the 319w on saturday. I have not cleaned this machine finish as my one painted 401a was very clean. Is there a favorite product for such a grubby machine?

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jpeg 20191211_164604 (1).jpg (234.40 KB, 9 views)

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hilltophomesteader

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Reply with quote  #12 
I like to use NON-PUMICE Go-Jo on mine.  It cleans fabulously....just make sure it is the NON pumice one!!  
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Chaly

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkwatts
I have a friend picking up the 319w on saturday. I have not cleaned this machine finish as my one painted 401a was very clean. Is there a favorite product for such a grubby machine?


Congratulations on your new sewing machine.  Looks to be a fun project.
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #14 
Those Singer 319 internal cams require some disassembly of the machine top to take them out, so I'm confident you will find them all in place. That said, the service manual says that they are the same as the other cams that go on the outside drive spindle (held in place by the large chromed knob) and can be replaced by any cam desired, but the selection that matches the typewriter or "warbonnet" keys is fine as is, as far as I'm concerned. 

In case you need them, here are the manuals for the 319. I have posted these before, but the subject keeps coming up, so am posting them again. The Singer 319 is in the last section of the Singer Swing Needle Sewing Machines service manual. It also covers the 206 and 306. 

-Bruce

 
Attached Files
pdf Singer 319manual.pdf (12.86 MB, 4 views)
pdf Singer 306W25 inc 319 Section.pdf (16.10 MB, 3 views)

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thank you Bruce.

I meant i hope the external cams are included. A video I watched showed the 319 modifying the external cam by engaging an internal cam at the same time. This gave over one hundred patterns. I assume this will not damage the machine. Has anyone tried that with the 319?
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #16 
Using an internal cam and external cam at the same time with the 319 should not pose any problems at all as you have two followers riding a contour instead of one, which is the process being used that allows for the different internal stitch patterns  by the Singer 401, 500 and 600. They have followers that ride different cams to give the weird patterns. Adding an external cam and engaging both the internal cam lever and the external cam lever on the 319 is just doing the same thing. 

-Bruce
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #17 




The video above shows the sewer adding one two and three piano keys to the external cam to change the stitch. Remarkable machine!
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #18 
One thing about the Singer 319 that only appears on the 319, not the 206 or 306, is the Singer 301 style folding handle on top. It's not for carrying the machine, like the 301, as far as I know. It's for assisting in tilting the machine back to change bobbins since that is the only way to do it unless you have your machine in a "rotary" cabinet with the hand hole under the table to get access to the bobbin case. Even then you are "using the Force" to feel around for it. It's often easier to just tilt the machine back. That's why I gave my Singer 306 away - my 319s are just so much easier to use. 

- Brucer
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Chaly

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Reply with quote  #19 
I have a Singer 401 and 500a and Bruce explained this perfectly.  I'd like to add that many think the 403/503 are equivalent to the 401/500 respectively.  One has a lot more flexibility for decorative stitches with the 401/500 because of the ability to use the internal stitch patterns with an external cam.

This is explained only briefly in the manuals and not very clearly.  Basically, one can do hundreds of stitch patterns by combining the internal and external cams.  The 403/503 can only do the stitch patterns of the external cams/fashion discs with no modification.  

Another consideration is the 401/500 can use the cams/fashion discs for the 403/503 and modify stitch width restraints from the built in patterns.  

Many do prefer the 403/503 over the 401/500 as the internal mechanisms are of course simpler but a cleaned up working 401/500, I think, surpasses, feature wise, the 403/503s.
No doubt the 403/503s have a much easier learning curve but you give up a lot of flexibility for this.  The 401/500 can do everything the 403/503s do plus a lot more.  I think the same applies to your 319 in comparison with the 306.

Have fun with all the stitches!
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #20 
A more basic look at the 306, 403, 503 and 603 vs the 319, 401, 500 and 600 is that the ones with the built in stitches appeal to the bells and whistles, levers and knob junkies. You know....guys like me.

The more moving parts, the more wigging and wagging levers, pendulating indicators, and visible spinning parts the better.

Be sure to tie your hair back before sewing. [wink]

- Bruce


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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #21 
Sorry to piggyback on this note, I was not able to locate the new topic. My 319W came today. All but five if the cams are there. If anyone has 1-2-4-14-19, i would be happy to purchase. Lots if fun goodies in the drawers. The serial number is confusing me. I have looked on ismac. But don't see w prefix numbers. Is there a site that included these? Thanks and Woohoo!

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jpeg 20191216_165241.jpg (214.96 KB, 7 views)

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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #22 
Some of the later Singer serial number ranges and information can be very misleading and nearly impossible to use for dating, including ones made in the 1950s. One PDF file I have lists manufacturing dates and prices, but was supposedly made up from dealer records from around the country. In that file, it says the 319 was made from 1955 to 1957 and sold for $309.00. 

With yours having the same tan color of the 306 and painted levers, I would assume it to be one of the first series, probably dating to 1955. 

- Bruce


 
Attached Files
pdf Singer Manufacturing Dates and Prices.pdf (631.57 KB, 10 views)

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #23 
Thank you. I was confused if the country of manufacture was Connecticut or Germany.
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #24 
Just realized those missing cams are the typewriter keys patterns. Does that mean I don't need them or should I still have the cams to be able to mix them with the levers? Or do you just lift multiple levers to "mix" them with each other. Lots to learn!

Google on ISMAC gave the information pictured below. Considering my serial number is just outside the limit and the beginning numbers were in 1954. 1955 It is! Thank you Bruce!

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png Screenshot_2019-12-16-18-36-07.png (149.00 KB, 8 views)

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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #25 
Your machine was definitely made in the US. I don't know if any 319s were ever made in Germany. The original Singer 201 was made in Germany before the war, I think. It looks a bit different than the American ones after the war. Also, the original German 206 used a decal for the Singer logo and not a brass badge. 

I have 1 319w, the other 2 are 319Ks, made in Great Britain if memory serves. The 319w was American made. There are minor differences, in the bed of the machine particularly. The neat little walnut box base with prop leg was on the American 319w, but will not fit on the 319k. I ran into that when I was refurbishing my three 319s. 

-Bruce


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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #26 
I just walked past this one on Sunday at the Flea Market  319W  With box if accessories $60
20191215_094127.jpg 


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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #27 
RE missing cams - I would go ahead and buy the missing cams. Even though they are in the machine already, you can complete the set. There are a lot of nice later model Singers that use the same flat cams like the Singer 328 and the Singer 338 and 348, all have steel gears, although the 348 has a rotary hook run by a belt. The 338 and 348 look almost the same, light blue, but the 338 is oscillating hook, the 348 belt drive rotary. 

- Bruce
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #28 
RE Flea Market 319 - 60 dollars would not be bad when you consider it is in nice shape (paint and decals) and have the attachments. Remember - a cheaper price usually has shipping added which can double that, and shipping usually means FedEX drop-kicking it all the way across the country. Been there, done that. Bird in the bush....!

-Bruce
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #29 
Inside one of the drawers was the original bill of sale. Price $447.35 in mahogany desk. They were to pay $23.17 a month for eighteen months. Instead it was paid off in four months on June 26,1956. All receipts are stapled with the conditional sale contract. There is a great history in her little notes in every box. Who, what where, how much. Many notes stress using the correct needles. A note tucked into the buttonholer manual reads, "Practice. It makes perfect button holes. Practice, practice.".
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #30 
The 319w is cleaning up nicely using the Gojo. The pics looked worse than it really is. I haven't gone near the decals or badge and wanted to ask if it was best to avoid these areas? Does anyone use a protective coating that works on this type of paint? Also, the belt seems to be on its way out. The inner cloth lining has rolled off leaving the rubber part. My replacement belts are all rubber. Is there a source for 319 belts or anything specific I should ask for when replacing it? Thanks
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #31 
Re the 319 decals - YES! Do be extremely careful on the decals. These were put on the surface with no top coat. Even masking tape can remove them. I had that happen to a 401 which is almost exactly the same. Goodwill put the price written on a piece of tape right over the top decal. Even though I took it off gently, most of the gold went with it. Best to use the Gojo or whatever on the paint only, and use nothing stronger than mild dishwashing soap on the decals. 

As for the motor belt, you can get a new one, but the selection is not good. No new belt selections are good. Virtually all new ones are coming out of China and are those orange things. You can get one of the Universal black, round rubber ones that will work well enough, or one marked Singer on the package that is listed for the machine and you might get lucky. 

As you can read, I have had pretty bad luck getting decent belts for many of my machines. I usually wind up just getting what I can - not what I want. That makes my hand crank and treadle machines more pleasing to me. At least the Whites, Nationals and other makes use a friction drive. New friction drive rollers or bobbin winder tires are at least black, plus they can be made at home. 

Shop around, but you can get a belt for it. It just might not be a black V belt. There are some reliable sellers on eBay, but they are still stuck selling the crap from China. Sewing Parts Online or other known reliable sites are pretty much in the same boat - getting whatever comes off the boat. 

- Bruce
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #32 
Thanks Bruce. The 319 is cleaned,oiled, motor cleaned and wiring checked. All good till I run it. It is fine at low speeds. But there is a rumbling at the higher speeds. Like something rattle rubbing. It sounds like it is under the built in stitches area and a little towards the needle. I took the lid off and held the built in stitches up while I ran it. Not it. Is it a problem to remove the built in mechanism to see what might be making noise under it? Or is it difficult getting it back together? Thanks
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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #33 
No need. Just as I figured out it was the spool pin plate rattling, the belt broke. Play time is over. Boo.
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JonesHand52

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Reply with quote  #34 
Broken belts are always a p***er. Sounds like you need manuals. Here (again, I think) are the manuals covering the 319. In the service manual the 319 is in the next to last section.  

- Bruce

 
Attached Files
pdf Singer 306W25 inc 319 Section.pdf (16.10 MB, 2 views)

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Mkwatts

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Reply with quote  #35 
Thanks. It did come with users manual, carefully covered in saran wrap. Mrs. was very particular. I will be glad to have the service one. Thanks. You have been very helpful with the 319 and 206. I appreciate it.
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