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SteveH-VSS

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Thanks to Hilltophomesteaders post in the "check it out" section, I am now the proud owner of this Singer improved family. It was made near the end of 1890 and it came with the correct puzzle box which is really hard to find and a one-armed embroidery attachment!!

My brother-in-law just happens to live very close, so he already picked it up this afternoon.

IMG_20180912_190050.jpg  IMG_20180912_181547.jpg  IMG_20180912_181453.jpg  IMG_20180912_181449.jpg 



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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #2 
Steve there's a really nice one in Kelso, a little south of me, for $100.

Cari

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macybaby

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Reply with quote  #3 

I think that is not a period correct puzzle box.  I think your machine is older.   Does it take a class 15 bobbin,  or the slightly smaller one?  That box is for the class 15 bobbins,  the one like this is for the earlier IF machines.  Class 15 bobbins do not fit in this holder. 

Great find on the machine and the embroidery attachment.  I have one like that too. 


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Mickey

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Reply with quote  #4 
I'm not sure if I would spot a one armed embroidery attachment if it jumped up and bit me, but the machine is absolutely beautiful. I have never seen one first hand, I like the decals and fiddle shaped base. That's the version with a fixed bobbin lid clicking in place on top of the bobbin?
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #5 
It is currently a couple hundred miles away at my brother in laws.  I'll be picking it up on the 6th.  I'll take measurements.  The bobbin Looks like the 15, but as you said, it could be slightly smaller
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #6 
Macybaby, this is the one that came with my other  I.F. (1888)  I have NO idea that that goofy bar is for...  It is screwed down at both ends, so I cannot see how it would hold any bobbins.

20180711_174411-600x800.jpg 



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macybaby

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Reply with quote  #7 
Not sure how it would hold them down either, but that is where Singer put the bobbin holder on all the other boxes.  Yours is the only one I've ever seen like that - but it has the other parts that are for puzzle box 2.    I don't think Singer used #1 very long as the pegs get loose very easily. 

Your second one appears to be #7 or #8.   Though my #7 and #8 has the thinner bobbin clip while yours has the class 15 bobbin clip.  #9 went to a different ruffler and the holder is not like that. 

It's really too bad there does not seem to be any good way to date exactly when Singer changed puzzle box styles,  and it appears they changed them very often in the early years of use.   I've also found variations that aren't in any manual - but it would have been expensive back then to print a new manual for a slight layout change. 

When you get it home, if you are missing pieces,  let me know and I'll see what I've got extra.

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hilltophomesteader

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly
Steve there's a really nice one in Kelso, a little south of me, for $100.

Cari


Is it on Craigslist, Cari?  I don't see it listed.....

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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltophomesteader


Is it on Craigslist, Cari?  I don't see it listed.....

Facebook Marketplace.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/170483837123257

snip for Pam.jpg 
Cari

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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #10 
That is in better shape than the one I just got! Nice.
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #11 
Here is the Needle bar survey of Puzzleboxes

http://www.needlebar.org/main/puzzles/index.html

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Reply with quote  #12 
Nice puzzle box Steve, i have never seen that bobbin holder either. I have been trying to find manuals online that are slightly different from others. I have been looking in the top right corner for odd reissues and dates. I think that is where the real clues will be for dating these eventually. Forgot to mention the Style 11 is currently shown in the Smithsonian and they have the three numbering systems given in that box. They have the single digit, triple digit and the 5 digit systems plus the morse code order codes, so dating in different periods approximate.

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #13 
Well, Miller on Needlebar was able to figure out/remember how this one works!
We are still looking for research as to it's place in the sequence and standard layout.

20180919_064043-600x800.jpg 



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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #14 
She's home!
20181007_133428-800x600.jpg  20181007_133505-800x600.jpg  20181007_133409-800x600.jpg  20181007_133414-800x600.jpg 


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PatriciaPf

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Reply with quote  #15 
Lovely!  Can't wait to see her after her Spa Day. 
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #16 
20181007_134110-600x800.jpg  20181007_134157-800x600.jpg 

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WI Lori

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Reply with quote  #17 
Welcome home, Lillian!
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #18 
That is a very good find. The decals look like the darker variant. Where is the embroidery attachment? Would love to see that for a IF machine, never saw one yet.

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #19 
Here it is.  The one that came with this IF is actually a Peerless Model B
20181007_085358-800x600.jpg

Patent Data
  20181007_085549-600x800.jpg 

Here at the three Embroidery attachments I have. 
NOTE:The one on the left is the one stamped IF.  It says made by Sakett

The Bar closest to the Attachments is the original, the other is the one I made (before having seen one)
20181007_195137-600x800.jpg 


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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #20 
They look all the same at first glance, then they become different with the details. I like the Sakett one, it looks better built. The drive bar is thicker, the joint is more robust, and i has IF on it lol. The thread eyelet looks smother on the Sakett too. You "eye balled" the thread holder well. I don't know why they made the original that long. In pictures i have wondered if they had longer spools for embroidery thread back then because they were thicker thread. Thank you for sharing Steve, was wondering how accurate the engraved pictures were that i looked at. Much better than the cartoonish ads.

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #21 

Here is the "manual" that came with my 1st Peerless
Peerless B - upper half - front_sm.jpg 
Peerless B - lower half - front_sm.jpg 


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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #22 
Very lucky getting a manual with one, wow. I would love to use one of these one day. Did you get the box it came in too? I saw a peerless buttonhole with a wood box with sliding top. I bet this attachment had the same. I am starting to think the better attachments are found in the 5 and 7 drawer cabinets, they had more money to buy stuff like the extra drawers.

Sort of does look like a bigger spool on the single arm and silk thread on the dual arm one?

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #23 
Ebay 05.jpg 

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SteveH-VSS

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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #25 
Interesting that it comes in a box similar in appearance to the IF/IM set in the purple box. That would round off a nice old set for sure!!!

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #26 
Well, searching Craigslist paid off. I found this coffin lid that is not only in excellent shape but happens to be the wood and grain match for this I F that was missing its cover! $20
 
The fact that it was located 5 minutes from my daughter's house so she could pick it up was a plus. They had a dentist appointment down here today so they dropped it off while I was at work
20181119_164836-800x450.jpg 


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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #27 
Can't ask for a better match then that !!! Wow that looks good, factory fresh looking. Good catch

  John Stuart
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Andy Ybarra

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Reply with quote  #28 
Beautifil machine!!! congratulations!
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #29 
 for those interested in the comparison here are three pictures each of the face and upper tension for my two i f machines.  seem to make sense to clutter up my thread
20181120_210723-600x1067.jpg  20181120_210750-600x1067.jpg  20181120_210744-600x1067.jpg 

20181120_210917-600x1067.jpg 
20181120_210903-600x1067.jpg 
20181120_210833-600x1067.jpg 


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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #30 
Do you have a picture of the thread uptake spring that goes around the post? It should have been attached to the screw further back on the left side of the casting. I am about to check to see if mine might be there, in part. I only looked quickly before and didn't even clean.

  John Stuart
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #31 
Sorry, I took those out because my Granddaughters started playing with the wire....
But, now that it has a cover, I can make it shiny and put it together.
20181121_065256.jpg 


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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #32 
I would bet my first attempt making one out of guitar string might look like the one you have Steve lol. Was it stuck in the recess at the bottom of the tension post "pit" The diagrams in the parts catalogue don't have the small end on the spring like your's does, but it shows the set up goes with the regular spring like on the domestic 1884 year model and up. Your tension doesn't have the same posts as seen in the 1883 IF thread. It appears the spring is tensioned by clamping the post in that position rather than part 95 shown here http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/1790/imagepages/image6.htm Have you found the unique post in the parts catalogue yet? The 1883 and before have a threaded one, i don't see threads on the same portion on your post.

Do you have a number cast into the main machine casting under the bed? Do you have a grease pen number on the back side of the rear cover plate? The 1883 machines have the screw for the tension spring in a slide, but your machine looks like it is a grub screw and not in a slide for adjustment. I am wondering if the use of that tension system would mean a differing main cast as well.

  John Stuart
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #33 
I just found these parts looking for the 1883 replacement parts. The post is part S 600 (clamping) , the clamping screw is part S 141 and the set screw is S 448. Plate 12 here has the diagrams for the clamp screw and post http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/1790/imagepages/image14.htm This is the alternating presser variant as these parts go with part 188 faceplate ( unknown part number for IF) that states it is for use with part S600 here http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/1790/imagepages/image32.htm. It also states it is for use with part 275 , the thumbscrew thread guide. That is JUST the faceplate lol. The presser bar may have an odd part as well.

  John Stuart
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #34 
Alternating presser 15' s were 15-28, 15k28 and 15-29 using the 16x1 needle. Mentions of an upper and lower presserfeed model as well in the ISMACS list. Might be parts of doing so with the IF line as well.

  John Stuart
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #35 
I also noticed black insulators around the posts that attach the machine to the table top...hmmmm. An electric? The actuator for this year would have spanned the back portion under the back of the table top held by two screws. There might be an outline of the large box and two screw holes.
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #36 
I found the parts list for the ornamentation machine here and is called the 9 IF. The 1890 IF should have parts listed 9 I.F. and associated parts here http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/2733/ . The parts that actuate the thread take up lever cam that operates the tension thumbscrew pin. Work back from that point in the drive line to the main shaft and there are more parts i think as well. All depends on how it is outfitted under the back plate and the feed dogs. It might have a 9 cast on the underside of the bed or on the main cast under the back plate. Could also read in grease pen on the back of the back plate.

  John Stuart
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johnstuart

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Reply with quote  #37 
I have been trying to look for a 15-(xxx) number to the 9 I.F machine and none found. It seems this was discontinued by 1901(ish) as shown here http://www.industrialsewmachine.com/webdoc1/used/used-singers/15.htm . There might be a possibility with the # 2553 maybe. It would take a lot to find an equivalent. There is also a cool trolley stand here near the bottom !!!

  John Stuart
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Ericka

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH-VSS
Well, Miller on Needlebar was able to figure out/remember how this one works!
We are still looking for research as to it's place in the sequence and standard layout.

20180919_064043-600x800.jpg 


I'm a little late on this, Steve, but that's a "Style 2" puzzle box.  Here's a pic of one that I have as it should be laid out, but without the bobbins 😉  Although, now that I look at it, I see that I have a shirring plate for a 27 machine rather than the IF or 15 [frown]  Details, details....
My Style 2 IF Laid Out.jpg  And here's the only documentation that I have seen on it.  This pic came from the NeedleBar site and, I believe, was originally posted by Chrys Gunther.  There are actually 4 pages to the leaflet, none of which have any dates on them, so I just posted the layout page here for you.  I also have one that is for the VS, as well. 
Page 2.jpg
It was dubbed the Style 2 on NB, I know, but I've never seen a manual to know what it might have actually been called.  Since it has all of the same attachments as the "Style 1" box, just a different layout, it would appear to be the second type of puzzle box that was made.  The Style 3, of course, had some of the same attachments, but different tucker, hemmers and attachment foot and the hold-downs are MUCH better than the screws used in the Style 1 boxes.

And nice score on the box for the embroidery attachment.  First time I've seen that.  I've got a few of the attachments that are stamped either Sackett or Peerless, but have never seen the 2-thread one except in the ad.  Maybe one day.....

Ericka

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