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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #51 
Who was 153 for Sears?

Bear has a booth at an area Quilt Show yesterday and today.  A lady asked if I could track down a replacement bobbin case for her machine.  She provided two photos of it, but I’m hoping to get more, at least one of the hook area.  I don’t know if I’ll get any JA/JC numbers for you.

Selecting a bobbin case for it will be a “challenge” for sure.  (See that tricky play on words? *tongue in cheek*)

CD in Oklahoma

IMG955024_sm.jpg 
IMG955025_sm.jpg 


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Reply with quote  #52 
CD, more so than you think...

None of know who made this one. Is a mystery.

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Reply with quote  #53 
Sure looks like a regular 15-clone as even has the round stitch length regulator.

'twould be nice if has JA or JC numbers.



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Reply with quote  #54 
I don't know if this will help or not, but maybe it will give you a starting point.
There were (I believe) three different 'Challenge' models. One, if not two of them were made by Soryu.
If you happen to have a late 50's, early 60's Kenmore 148 series machine laying about... I'd give
serious consideration as to whether or not the bobbin cases would swap.
They might not... but if I were headed down that road, that's where I'd begin.

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #55 
I found an old post here on VSS by Joe (J Miller) that gave information from another sewing machine group indicating that 153 is Riccar.

CD in Oklahoma


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Jim/Steelsewing

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Reply with quote  #56 
The whole reason behind Zorba's list now is to verify the many different Kenmore manufacturer lists found across the internet.
Apparently there are many variations of such a list, all unsubstantiated.
No one here has confirmed the Riccar yet, but hey, go for it.
Let us know if it works. =)

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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #57 
Its starting to look that way for sure, we've been turning up all kinds of Sears sewing machines that nobody knows anything about!

I'll add this one, JA/JC numbers would be a plus!

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Reply with quote  #58 
and that's without even mentioning the C877's.


-oops-


nevermind...

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Reply with quote  #59 
Ooh! I've had a couple of C877 machines.  C877.15 and C877.4xx (can't recall the last 2 numbers off he top of my head).
Somewhere along the line, some people here have thought part of the reason there's no info on these ones is that they were from/for the Canadian market and thus less people documenting anything.   It's possible.  We do often get slightly different models - I think sometimes just to make cross border parts replacement harder.

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
Ooh! I've had a couple of C877 machines....


First I've ever heard of them....

CD in Oklahoma

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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #61 
Here's my thoughts on the C877 machines. I've known for years that the odd Singer footprint Kenmore would show up once in a while but I never paid much attention to model #s or source codes since I'm not into Kenmores. I finally saw enough to realize the C877 machines were Canadian, and they don't look like the Kenmores we have in the US, they look like any other badged Japanese machines. Maybe Sears wasn't allowed to be so proprietary about their wares in Canada?Or maybe some of the manufacturers that Sears used in the US didn't import to Canada?

Cari

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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #62 
Cari, I believe you're probably right on that.

CD, for your viewing pleasure [wink]  :

Here's what I wrote on the QB back in 2014:

Quote:
I have heard that the C877 machines might have been Juki or White or Babylock. All three manufacturer names came from OSMGs, but different ones.

I also like the C877.15 - it looks like a clone to me and there's the C877.60. It looks like a 50s car to me.


C877.781:
IMG_4812.jpg 

C877.60:

IMG_4575.jpg 

The C877.15 (a 15 clone) came in black or baby blue.  I haven't had one here, so no pics of that but tons on Google.  The next time I get any of them in, I will look for JA and JC numbers.


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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #63 
153.272 "Challenge" has been added. Any other info would be great...
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Reply with quote  #64 
I don't know if this means anything or not, but I did find this listing for a manual.

K27Manual.png 

Supposedly it covers all those models. The problem is that it should cover all those models.
I mean is this an 'official' 'came with the machine' copy of a Kenmore manual or is it some generic class 15 manual.
-Not to imply that the 'official' Kenmore manual wasn't a generic class 15 manual-
Ahem.

The other 'thing' I find interesting are the numbers:
The Soryu Kenmore 148.270 and 148.271
appear to be dead on identical to the 148.273.

The problem for me is that I have yet been able to find a 148.272.
It's missing.

So I have to ask myself:
Is it just some totally bizarre cosmic coincidence that the 153
that has us all a stumped just so happens to be a 153.272?
Isn't that just a little too weird.

I find myself wondering what unusual set of circumstances may have lead to a
situation whereupon Sears themselves assigned a second manufacturers
number to Soryu for just that one model?
Is this even possible?

Now if that isn't enough to keep you up at night.

Allow me to just blow your mind:

Simp15a.jpg 








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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane


IMG_4575.jpg 


This screams Toyota...

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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba


This screams Toyota...


I'd believe it.  It was a beautifully smooth machine too.  I think it might be the one I sold to my cousin when I met her.  (We'd never met before and she came to get this machine and we started talking afterward and found out we were related.)  So I might be able to get other info from it.  Such as JA/JC numbers.

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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane








C877.781:
IMG_4812.jpg 


And this one is hollering Dressmaker or Universal.

Cari

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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly


And this one is hollering Dressmaker or Universal.

Cari


I agree it resembles a couple of Dressmakers I've had here - something also said White to me too on this model. 

I've often wondered if C877 just denoted the Canadian market somehow and not the manufacturer.  Maybe the manufacturer was stored some other way in their own archives - since the 3 machines I've seen with C877 numbers have all been markedly different looking and all looked like they had different manufacturers OR maybe there was a manufacturer who was copying styles.

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane
- since the 3 machines I've seen with C877 numbers have all been markedly different looking and all looked like they had different manufacturers OR maybe there was a manufacturer who was copying styles.


We'll fix that "three" thing for you:

ck877.06.jpg  *best pic I can find...

ck877.07.jpgWow. I want one.

ck877.15.jpg  ck877.50.jpg  ck877.60.jpg  ck877.66.jpg  ck877.68.jpg  ck877.701.jpg  Beyond cool. Really like the 701.

ck877.781.jpg  ck877.782.jpg 
These last two appear identical. I'm not sure why they would have a single digit variance.

That's all I got right this minute.

If anyone sees another model to ad, please do give us a pic!

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Reply with quote  #70 
I think i have a c877.781, not working. Someone gave me that with a Singer 15-91.

  John Stuart
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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim/Steelsewing


We'll fix that "three" thing for you:

  *best pic I can find...

Wow. I want one.

            Beyond cool. Really like the 701.

   
These last two appear identical. I'm not sure why they would have a single digit variance.

That's all I got right this minute.

If anyone sees another model to ad, please do give us a pic!


Let me re-phrase - "of the 3 machines I've personally had on my bench or laid eyes on in real life".

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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #72 
Yeah, the C877 machines were definitely built by at least 3 different manufacturers. We may never know the why's of the Canadian numbering system Sears used but it's another fun thing to theorize over.

Cari

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Jim/Steelsewing

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane


Let me re-phrase - "of the 3 machines I've personally had on my bench or laid eyes on in real life".


Oh goodness, I knew what you meant! =)

The thing is I'd already been searching and saving those pics.
So, um, you gave me an excuse to post them.
Thank you.

Some of them are really neat!



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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #74 
Here's a stumper for you, this Victor is being talked about on FB. Someone told the gal it was made by Brother. I disagreed and when a guy asked me how I know and I told him, he laughed at me. He thinks that because HE doesn't know anything about Japanese machines that nobody knows anything about Japanese machines. He also says the JA#s don't mean anything. I'm about to argue that but it's gonna be tough because this ones JA# isn't even ON the list. JA25, JC9.
Victor off FB.jpg  Victor JA25..jpg 

Cari


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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly
He thinks that because HE doesn't know anything about Japanese machines that nobody knows anything about Japanese machines. He also says the JA#s don't mean anything. I'm about to argue that but it's gonna be tough because this ones JA# isn't even ON the list. JA25, JC9.


<sarcasm> Right, because they stamped random letters/numbers into the bodies of these machines just so they could mess with our minds 60+ years down the road.  [rolleyes] <- no really, that's my "I believe you" face - just ask hubby, he sees it all the time. </sarcasm>

It looks like you've run into someone suffering the Dunning-Kruger Effect.  Unfortunately, people like this abound on FB and the Internet in general.

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Reply with quote  #76 
Is there an officially titled 'Just got brow beat by Cari' effect?
If there isn't might I suggest: Oh Brother, where out thou?
Or is that taken?

Any way I look at it, I'm glad I'm not he.


*winks*

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly
Here's a stumper for you, this Victor is being talked about on FB. Someone told the gal it was made by Brother. I disagreed and when a guy asked me how I know and I told him, he laughed at me. He thinks that because HE doesn't know anything about Japanese machines that nobody knows anything about Japanese machines. He also says the JA#s don't mean anything. I'm about to argue that but it's gonna be tough because this ones JA# isn't even ON the list. JA25, JC9.

Cari


Thanx. I can't contribute more, I'll add JA25, and "Victor" to JC9 which is still an unknown.

I'd say never argue with anybody on face***k, but I'd rather just say never go there in the 1st place...

This is the only way I know of to increase our knowledge of Japanese machines, however little or slowly. Just keep adding to the list...

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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #78 
Absolutely Zorba, and with you doing it this way, with pics, paperwork and facts, it won't end up the jumbled mess that the Yahoo Japanese groups list did. For the most part I enjoy the machine groups on FB that I belong to. I get to see some great machines, learn more, help when I can. I also have real time friends on FB that don't come here or to QB.

Tammi, great snark. Wish I would've read it before I took myself out of the FB conversation, I would've used it. I gave him facts, he laughed, rinse repeat, until he told me to prove he's a dummy. I told him I didn't have to prove it, that he's doing well on his own and I left it at that.

Cari

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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #79 
BAM!
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PatriciaPf

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchaicArcane


<sarcasm> Right, because they stamped random letters/numbers into the bodies of these machines just so they could mess with our minds 60+ years down the road.  [rolleyes] <- no really, that's my "I believe you" face - just ask hubby, he sees it all the time. </sarcasm>

It looks like you've run into someone suffering the Dunning-Kruger Effect.  Unfortunately, people like this abound on FB and the Internet in general.


. . .to say nothing of government.  Glad to learn something new every day!  [thumb]


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ArchaicArcane

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari-in-Oly
Tammi, great snark. Wish I would've read it before I took myself out of the FB conversation, I would've used it. I gave him facts, he laughed, rinse repeat, until he told me to prove he's a dummy. I told him I didn't have to prove it, that he's doing well on his own and I left it at that.


As you can tell, I've dealt with that sort of person a lot.  It happens a lot in IT unfortunately.  I also get a lot of messages that never get posted to my website from similar people - including one that insists that heavy assembly grease is a suitable lube for Singer motors. [rofl]

You handled him just fine! 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriciaPf


. . .to say nothing of government.  Glad to learn something new every day!  [thumb]



Oh, it's a specific test they do before you can hold a government position - regardless of the government - municipal, provincial/state, or federal and regardless of country.  [wink]

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #82 
Zorba, I put some JA/JC information about a couple of shuttle zigzag machines over in another thread at:
http://www.victoriansweatshop.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1305661034&postcount=3915&forum=501752

CD in Oklahoma

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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #83 
Thanx CD, I'll get 'em transferred. If my theory is correct, they would share the same JC number. I had one of these badged "Morse" that Steve has now.
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SteveH-VSS

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Reply with quote  #84 
Here are the ja Jacy and serial numbers for the morse long bobbin zig zag.
20180930_154018-800x600.jpg  20181001_095326-800x600.jpg  20181001_095343-800x600.jpg 


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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #85 
As we all suspected, but its confirmation is always nice. Thanx Steve, I'll update the list yet again!
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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #86 
Zorba my Dressmaker 300 is also JA47, JC34. Do I really have to go take a pic of it?

Cari

BTW, it also has KDAZ 620 on the inner side of the face plate, which is the model # the manual calls it.



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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #87 
Nope, I believe you! We're getting a lot with this combination now - I'll add it!

Its amazing how fast this list is growing, particularly the JC numbers. Between various "contributions" here, and my perusing eBay and shopgoodwill which are a wealth of information when you find someone who has taken a good clear picture of the bottom, we're increasing the worldwide knowledge of these things. Now how much good its going to do is another question, but hey!

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #88 
This is a follow-up confirmation on the black Universal Shuttle Zigzag JA/JC numbers.

Serial #JA47 77552 - JA47 - JC34

I have no way of knowing if the shuttle in this machine is the original, but it looks to me like the one in it matches a Singer shuttle.

CD in Oklahoma

Machine381_06.jpg  Machine381_07.jpg  Machine381_08.jpg  Machine381_10.jpg 



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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #89 
My shuttle looks exactly like the Singer one. I wonder if mine isn't a replacement? I don't recall seeing a Simanco or Singer # on mine though.

Cari

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ThayerRags

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Reply with quote  #90 
I noticed that the Singer machine shuttle that I had bagged from a 127 had a 4 or 5 digit number partially visible under the spring, but the Universal ZZ had only a single digit....a "6" maybe?  I'll have to take the tension spring off to see the Singer number completely.  Shoot...., now I'll have to go dig that machine out at the shop again.  Maybe next week.....

CD in Oklahoma

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Reply with quote  #91 
Zorba here's a puzzler I just found. Definitely a Brother badge and reverse button but no other features scream Brother built to me. JA5, JC2 cast into the head. I can't tell what name is cast into the bottom but it doesn't say Brother. My theory is that it's a Brother built machine, but built with a head cast by someone else.
Brother JA5, unknown who cast the head.jpg  under side of Brother JA5.jpg 

Cari


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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #92 
Well, ain't that special. Not without apparent precedent, JC-15 is associated with Brother with an unknown OEM, as is JA-107. I'll add it, and thanx!
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Cari-in-Oly

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Reply with quote  #93 
Spotted another JA25 machine, badged as a Dressmaker.
JA25 Dressmaker.jpg 

Cari


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Zorba

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Reply with quote  #94 
Added.
"Dressmaker" really seems to get around! I get the impression that "everybody" was using the name with little or no coordination.

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Reply with quote  #95 
Yep. You'll even find machines being made currently that are Dressmakers. It's a popular name.

Cari

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Reply with quote  #96 
Zorba here's a couple badged names to add to JA 20. White and Hilton.
White 366 JA20.jpg 
Hilton 466 JA20.jpg 
JA20 unnamed.jpg 

Cari


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Reply with quote  #97 
Done, and thanx! "White" I already had, never heard of "Hilton" before.

If anybody has a Japanese free arm machine and feels like removing the bottom cover... - JA/JC numbers have never been reported on a free-arm, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one somewhere...

With careful cruising of eBay, Shopgoodwill, and the occasional other site, I've been growing the list considerably!

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